Tuesday, May 26th 2020

Distant Blips on the AMD Roadmap Surface: Rembrandt and Raphael

Several future AMD processor codenames across various computing segments surfaced courtesy of an Expreview leak that's largely aligned with information from Komachi Ensaka. It does not account for "Matisse Refresh" that's allegedly coming out in June-July as three gaming-focused Ryzen socket AM4 desktop processors; but roadmap from 2H-2020 going up to 2022 sees many codenames surface. To begin with, the second half of 2020 promises to be as action packed as last year's 7/7 mega launch. Over in the graphics business, the company is expected to debut its DirectX 12 Ultimate-compliant RDNA2 client graphics, and its first CDNA architecture-based compute accelerators. Much of the processor launch cycle is based around the new "Zen 3" microarchitecture.

The server platform debuting in the second half of 2020 is codenamed "Genesis SP3." This will be the final processor architecture for the SP3-class enterprise sockets, as it has DDR4 and PCI-Express gen 4.0 I/O. The EPYC server processor is codenamed "Milan," and combines "Zen 3" chiplets along with an sIOD. EPYC Embedded (FP6 package) processors are codenamed "Grey Hawk."
The 4th generation Ryzen Threadripper HEDT processor family, which uses "Zen 3" chiplets, will be based on a package codenamed "Genesis Peak," and we predict it could retain compatibility with sTRX4 motherboards. AMD's main breadwinner for "Zen 3" is expected to be "Vermeer," which makes up the bulk of the 4th generation Ryzen desktop processor family in the AM4 package. These processors are compatible with socket AM4 motherboards based on AMD 400- and 500-series chipsets.

The "Zen 2" based "Renoir" silicon will power APUs slotted in the Ryzen 4000 product family, such as the Ryzen 7 4700G. AMD will also introduce an entry-level Athlon processor based on highly stripped down silicon codenamed "Dali." We're not sure what the underlying microarchitecture is. With the Athlon 3000G, for example, AMD tapped into the original "Zen" (Zen 1) microarchitecture.

2021 promises to be an equally big year for AMD, as it refreshes not just its EPYC server processor lineup, but also the underlying platform, with the introduction of the new SP5-series enterprise socket that has DDR5 memory interface. This platform is codenamed "Floyd," and the enterprise processor is codenamed "Genoa." The 4th generation EPYC "Genoa" processor introduces new 5 nm "Zen 4" CPU chiplets, and a brand new sIOD that supports DDR5 memory interface.

It is likely that AMD will introduce a new desktop socket, AM5. This will be necessitated with the DDR5 memory standard gaining market traction in 2021. The codename of the mainstream desktop processor, which immediately succeeds "Vermeer," is still unknown. We do know the name of the "Renoir" successor, "Cezanne," which will make its debut as a mobile FP6 part, but will end being the last major product launch on the AM4 socket, as a "Zen 3" based socket AM4 APU. So entry-thru-mainstream AM4-based options will be available just as AM5 takes up the performance-thru-enthusiast segments.

2022 is as far as the eye can see on AMD's near-term future, seeing the debut of the "Zen 5" microarchitecture that's already under development. Unless it's built on a refinement of a 5 nm-class process, it could debut 3 nm, as TSMC is expected to debut this process by late-2022. We don't know what codenames the SP5-based enterprise platform or the enterprise processor goes by, but we're hearing two new names. "Raphael" is the 2022 successor to the chip that succeeds "Vermeer" on the socket AM5 desktop platform and "Rembrandt" is likely to be the first socket AM5 APU, which will make its debut as a mobile processor before growing some pins.
Sources: Expreview, Komachi Ensaka, via VideoCardz
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38 Comments on Distant Blips on the AMD Roadmap Surface: Rembrandt and Raphael

#1
ARF
It is time for AM5.
It's even surprising that AM4 could potentially extend its support through 2021 with Cezanne :eek:

I think Raphael (potentially in Q1 2022) just succeeds directly Vermeer (if Q4 2020). Bit over a year between the two.
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#2
thesmokingman
That is reassuring to see AM4 deep into 2021. The last hurrah for x570?
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#3
gdallsk
thats a load of question marks.
Goes to show that anyone can make a story out of anything.
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#4
kapone32
Message directly to Lisa Su. "Please give us X399 users some love and release an affordable TRX40 CPU. Please give us a 3920X (12 core) and 3940X (16 core) for $600 and $900 respectively. I know there must be a few TR4 users out there (As Rock keeps making X399 boards) that would love to maintain the power and accoutrements of HEDT but jump to 7nm and PCIe 4.0.
Posted on Reply
#5
ARF
kapone32
Message directly to Lisa Su. "Please give us X399 users some love and release an affordable TRX40 CPU. Please give us a 3920X (12 core) and 3940X (16 core) for $600 and $900 respectively. I know there must be a few TR4 users out there (As Rock keeps making X399 boards) that would love to maintain the power and accoutrements of HEDT but jump to 7nm and PCIe 4.0.
I think she would respond - nah, you have so much money, that you don't need pricing cuts.
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#6
TechLurker
I'm kind of impressed that the ARM-based K12 is still on the lists at all. It'd be quite interesting if AMD could put some focus there and see if they could break into the mobile/micro PC market with a powerful and efficient ARM-based CPU. Maybe even break the duopoly? in the mobile space and make it more competitive; especially as they could also leverage their RDNA2 for mobile concept. Although I don't know what their agreement with Samsung might entail in regards to an AMD-made ARM CPU w/ RDNA2.
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#7
cucker tarlson
Rembrandt,Raphael,Renoir ?
I got a painter's name for their coolers.
van Gogh

kapone32
Message directly to Lisa Su. "Please give us X399 users some love and release an affordable TRX40 CPU. Please give us a 3920X (12 core) and 3940X (16 core) for $600 and $900 respectively. I know there must be a few TR4 users out there (As Rock keeps making X399 boards) that would love to maintain the power and accoutrements of HEDT but jump to 7nm and PCIe 4.0.
why would you need a 12 core TR ? get a Ryzen 3000.
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#8
efikkan
So, someone put various rumors and known information into a spreadsheet and pressed print screen - stop the presses! :eek:

These are not internal AMD roadmaps, so they are speculation at best.
TechLurker
I'm kind of impressed that the ARM-based K12 is still on the lists at all.
Well, coming somewhere between 2017-2022…
K12 was once portrayed as the next big milestone and Zen the stopgap. By the time they complete K12 it will be obsolete, it probably will be relegated to a niche market if it enters production at all.
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#9
Caring1
Just remember, Genesis is Skynet. o_O :laugh:
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#10
Mats
This is great news to me.
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#12
Mats
londiste
Vermeer in Q1 2021?
How's that any surprise. How long did it take from Matisse demo to actually being available? Six months?
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#13
cucker tarlson
well,why not.
apus are apus.
save money,save production on 7nm.good move.
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#14
watzupken
Actually it is not surprising that AMD will continue to use Vega in their next gen APU. Looking at the current pattern, APUs normally get the last gen technology, i.e. Renoir is still based off the current Zen 2, instead of the upcoming Zen 3 architecture. Considering that they are only looking at releasing RDNA2 late this year, it is actually unlikely they will be that quick to slap it on their APU. However in face of competition from Intel's Xe graphics, not sure if this will accelerate the release of better graphics for AMD's APU.
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#15
ARF
Second, there's the matter of absent competition in this space - most consumer products that employ an AMD APU also employ some form of discrete graphics solutions - it would be remiss for AMD to invest in retooling RDNA for their APU lineup when few people, if any, will actually take advantage of the added graphics oomph instead of just running their discrete cards.
Yeah, but if only AMD starts making COMPETITIVE discrete cards.
They can't compete with 2016 Polaris till today, and have nothing good just yet.
20% market share is a disaster for AMD.

Vermeer pushed back to Q1 2021 is AMD doing Intel ..... what the hell!

This delay won't in any way make people buy old Zen 2 CPUs.

Rather wait for something better.

It doesn't make any sense:
Ryzen 1000 - March 2017
Ryzen 2000 - April 2018
Ryzen 3000 - July 2019
Ryzen 4000 - January - March 2021 ?!


Really ?!
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#16
FrustratedGarrett
Vega is worse than Intel's upcoming integrated GPUs in their desktop chips.
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#17
ARF
FrustratedGarrett
Vega is worse than Intel's upcoming integrated GPUs in their desktop chips.
Vega is a very bad architecture. AMD should aim for larger gap with the other players in the integrated graphics field that don't even specialise in graphics making.
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#18
cucker tarlson
ARF
Vega is a very bad architecture. AMD should aim for larger gap with the other players in the integrate graphics field that don't even specialise in graphics making.
no it isn't "very bad".
it's half-decent for dGPUs and good for apus.
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#19
watzupken
ARF
Vega is a very bad architecture. AMD should aim for larger gap with the other players in the integrated graphics field that don't even specialise in graphics making.
If Vega is that bad, it should not be 3x faster than Intel's UHD graphics for few years now. It is not power efficient when being pushed to the max, just like how Intel Comet Lake CPUs are, just like any hardware being pushed hard. We see the bad side of Vega because AMD was basically pushing it out of specs to try and keep up with Nvidia. At lower clockspeed and power, it is power efficient, and this works well on APUs.
Posted on Reply
#20
cucker tarlson
watzupken
If Vega is that bad, it should not be 3x faster than Intel's UHD graphics for few years now. It is not power efficient when being pushed to the max, just like how Intel Comet Lake CPUs are, just like any hardware being pushed hard. We see the bad side of Vega because AMD was basically pushing it out of specs to try and keep up with Nvidia. At lower clockspeed and power, it is power efficient, and this works well on APUs.
he cries in every thread that mentions amd not doing what moore's law and other stupid channels made him believe.
Posted on Reply
#21
ARF
watzupken
If Vega is that bad, it should not be 3x faster than Intel's UHD graphics for few years now. It is not power efficient when being pushed to the max, just like how Intel Comet Lake CPUs are, just like any hardware being pushed hard. We see the bad side of Vega because AMD was basically pushing it out of specs to try and keep up with Nvidia. At lower clockspeed and power, it is power efficient, and this works well on APUs.
But it doesn't support new features. APUs should be one generation architecture ahead, not years behind.
RDNA2 is coming during the next few months for desktop.

APU gaming performance is still extremely poor.
The APUs are not second category products for consumers in Africa in the poorest regions.
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#22
cucker tarlson
ARF
APUs should be one generation architecture ahead, not years behind.
are you gonna run minesweeper with dxr on ?
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#23
watzupken
FrustratedGarrett
Vega is worse than Intel's upcoming integrated GPUs in their desktop chips.
I feel it is still too early to conclude and the current GPU on AMD's APU are actually doing very well against Intel's UHD gen 9.5 and 11 (Ice Lake) since it was introduced almost 2+ to 3 years back. I don't think it is a fair comparison between a 2 year old tech and a future Intel GPU. Moreoever, you are not going to get Xe graphics till later this year or even next year on the desktop. On the mobile/ laptop space, even if Intel can catch up on GPU, its 4 cores CPU is still going to be a handicap for them against AMD's Renoir with up to 8 cores.
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#24
ARF
watzupken
If Vega is that bad, it should not be 3x faster than Intel's UHD graphics for few years now.
Link with benchmarks ?

3 times but in a virtual reality.

Posted on Reply
#25
watzupken
ARF
But it doesn't support new features. APUs should be one generation architecture ahead, not years behind.
RDNA2 is coming during the next few months for desktop.

APU gaming performance is still extremely poor.
The APUs are not second category products for consumers in Africa in the poorest regions.
I don't disagree that it will be great to have good performance on APUs. But unfortunately, iGPU are normally not something of great priority based on historical trend. These are typically made to give budget gamer with a set gaming experience. So I am not expecting any companies to throw in all the graphic bells and whistles. In this case, AMD have already provided a 1 up minimal viable product for some decent budget gaming. If you look at Intel UHD, it is only a MVP if you are using it for office work and watching shows.

Also, we generally see a significant boost in performance with faster memory standards, and I feel this gen is pretty much capped by the speed of DDR4 now. Till DDR5 appears, I feel there will be little improvement in performance due to memory bottleneck and giving it cutting edge technology may actually cause performance to regress.
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