Monday, April 15th 2019

MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?

Greedy motherboard vendors such as MSI want you to buy a new motherboard every two generations of processor for no sound reason at all. MSI is reportedly blocking support for 3rd generation Ryzen "Matisse" processors on its AMD 300-series chipset motherboards, including those based on high-end AMD X370 and OC-capable B350 chipsets. This would also put those who own $300 motherboards such as the X370 XPower out of luck. To recap, AMD announced on numerous occasions that it doesn't want to be a greedy clique like its competitor, by forcing motherboard upgrades and promised that socket AM4 motherboards will be backwards and forwards compatible with at least four generations of Ryzen processors, running all the way up to 2020.

This normally should mean that any 300-series motherboard must support 4th generation Ryzen processors with a simple BIOS update. Most 300-series motherboards, including from MSI, even ship with USB BIOS Flashback feature to help with forwards compatibility. Unfortunately, motherboard companies such as MSI care more about their bottom-lines than the consumer. In a support e-mail to an X370 XPower Titanium owner, MSI confirmed that it will not extend Zen 2 support to AMD 300-series. Other motherboard vendors could follow MSI's suit as a representative of another motherboard vendor, on condition of anonymity, told TechPowerUp that "Zen 2" processors have steeper electrical requirements that 300-series motherboards don't meet. This is an excuse similar to the one Intel gave for the planned obsolescence of its 100-series and 200-series chipsets, even as it was repeatedly proven that those motherboards can run and overclock 9th generation processors with custom firmware just fine. Would MSI care to explain whether a B450M PRO-M2 has a stronger VRM than an X370 XPower Titanium to warrant "Zen 2" support? Will all "Zen 2" processor SKUs have steep electrical requirements? Will there not be any SKUs with double-digit-Watt TDP ratings?

Update (16/04): MSI posted a clarification on this issue. Source: master3553 (Reddit)
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335 Comments on MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?

#1
lynx29
This is going to be some bad PR for MSI, that is a shame. Looks like I will roll ASRock for my x570 board.
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#2
GoldenX
God damnit.
Like I'm rich and can change motherboards on the fly.
If this is true I will put MSI on my blacklist along with Biostar.
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#3
Mats
I wonder how many of those affected will buy from MSI in the future.. or anyone else for that matter.

MSI could just have said that the 300 series only supports up to 8 or 12 cores, if that's really the issue here.


This is just a dick move.
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#4
dinmaster
I've had msi boards and they are nothing but trouble, the greed on full display here is another example of bad practice like intel has done. that power usage excuse is total crap, boards can deliver a lot more power then then stock cpus need, maybe run into oc problems with a newer more hungry cpu but for the most part i'm sure even in zen 4-5 it would still run stock just fine. at least we see msi's true colors here and hopefully people see this and punish them by not getting any.
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#5
lexluthermiester
Dear MSI,

Working hard and making money is a part of life. Using tactics like the ones described in this article is lowlifeishness and is not rewarded with further purchasing of your products. Best reconsider unless you want some very unprofitable backlash. Otherwise, take a long walk off a short pier or perhaps take a flying leap off a tall cliff or maybe go french-kiss a light socket? Yes, yes..

Regards,
Retailers and Purchasers everywhere.
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#6
OneMoar
There is Always Moar
maby not open with calling vendors greedy based on the information provided by one T1 support agent in Germany ?
to much speculation and faulty assumptions here, I expected better

this crap has been making the rounds with some sites claiming that the bios chip size on B3xx boards was to small to accommodate the microcode, which given that the microcode is a few bytes to a couple of kb and most bios images are < 8MB
is bullshit, so now somebody is blaming the vrm ? in a poorly translated email exchange, ill but that for a dollar

is there possibly unforeseen compatibility oversight on some of the lower end boards, Probly is it a show stopper probably not ...

so why don't we just stop with the click bait articles and stop writing scathing bs posts based on one user dealing with one T1 agent over email
seriously bta you should know better
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#7
the54thvoid
If true, it will hurt AMD as well. I planned on mobo longevity when I bought first gen Ryzen. If Asus follow suite, it shows AMD don't have the clout to force the issue. But, if I must change motherboard for a better processor, I may switch back to Intel.
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#8
londiste
16MB BIOS chips?
That was the reason for dropping pre-Ryzen CPU support from some (cheaper) boards. It is only logical that the same problem will also kick in again now that new CPUs need to be added.

Edit:
So, the motherboard in question - X370 XPower Titanium - has the latest BIOS update with a file size of 16384 bytes.
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#9
ironwolf
Nein wird es nicht, diese wird es für X470 und B450 geben.
My German is rusty so ran that through Google Translate:

"No it will not, this will be for X470 and B450. "
Posted on Reply
#10
RH92
That's not a smart move at all from MSI especialy if they are not followed by other major vendors . I expect the backlash to be big to the point where they will be forced to revert their decision .

It's a shame because MSI was building some solid reputation on AM4 with some very good mobos on both hardware and software side ( especialy with the recent implementation of offset voltage ) but looks like they are keen to destroy all of this !
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#11
Rahnak
Oof.. If this is true, it's a not good move for MSI. And I was considering them for my next upgrade too.

Don't disappoint me now, ASRock.
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#12
cryohellinc
If this turns out to be true, MSI will be in my blacklist, and not only for Mobos.
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#13
Mats
Intel is the sole chipset manufacturer for todays CPU's, they can do whatever they please.

MSI is not in that position, but like OneMoar said, is this really the official word from MSI?

It won't last. It's either a misunderstanding, or MSI will change their mind.

Otherwise they'll lose a lot of money.
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#14
yakk
MSI trying to push Intel-like tactics on AMD products, even to the point of going against what AMD themselves already publicly committed to? Bad precedence, bad judgment, and bad business IMO.

What I'm REALLY curious about are motherboards like the Asrock x470 Tai Chi which have massively overspec VRM and power delivery solution; will they get a x570 bios update because the board itself can certainly handle it.
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#15
Mussels
Moderprator
I had an MSI x370 and moved to an Aorus one... was looking at all brands for moving to x570, but dick moves like this turn me right off a brand.
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#16
lexluthermiester
yakk, post: 4030746, member: 158293"
What I'm REALLY curious about are motherboards like the Asrock x470 Tai Chi which have massively overspec VRM and power delivery solution; will they get a x570 bios update because the board itself can certainly handle it.
AsRock is really good about keeping their boards up to date. You can almost bet your life on it.

londiste, post: 4030757, member: 169790"
Latest BIOS size for both Taichi x370 and x470 is identical to the MSI one. Depends on how large their Flash chip for BIOS is.
Microcode updates don't take up much space and there is always enough room on the eprom for such.
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#17
moproblems99
If true, this will put MSI right on the list with ASUS of brands I don't buy. Which could be a shame as they were likely going to get a GPU purchase and MB purchase.

In any case, I am trying to cut down on my salt intake so we'll see what happens.
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#18
Xaled
Have been boycotting MSI and ASUS since the GPP scandal. This incidence just made me sure that I am not doing the wrong thing.

Cheers for TPU
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#19
HossHuge
Dick move by both MSI and AMD. If this affected me I'd be sending out emails to both company's and posting on their forums.
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#20
Wavetrex
Good reason for not buying MSI.

It's not like they are a market leader, in either volume and options... ASUS beats them hands down.
If ASUS won't do this crap, MSI will have no choice other than supporting as well, otherwise a lot of their customers will switch sides "just because"

Oh and there's Gigabyte, ASRock, Biostar, Elitegroup ... and there might be other less known ones especially on Asian market.
I doubt everyone will shoot themselves in the foot with such attitude.

---
If the manufacturer wants to sell a new board, then OFFER SOMETHING that is good enough that people will WANT to upgrade.

2.5 gbps Ethernet anyone ?
I'm sure that a LOT of people are waiting for it to become standard.

Also USB 3.x 10gbps, bundled radiator for NVMe, multiple (A)RGB headers that can be controlled independently, Wifi module offered on more boards (they are dirt cheap these days anyway)
Give use more and better stuff and WE WILL UPGRADE. Not because we HAVE TO, but because we WANT TO.
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#21
Mats
This is just FUD for now.

Expect MSI to speak out within a week and correct this.

If not, then yes, they're indeed stupid in the face.
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#22
cool_recep
Pretty sure they will release updated BIOS'es. I think you guys jumped a little bit fast on the wagon.
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#23
Mats
cool_recep, post: 4030763, member: 17220"
Pretty sure they will release updated BIOS'es. I think you guys jumped a little bit fast on the wagon.
This.

We need something official from MSI, until then there's no point in posting "if this is true" posts. We already know what everyone thinks if this is true.. ;)
Posted on Reply
#24
lexluthermiester
HossHuge, post: 4030760, member: 55273"
Dick move by both MSI and AMD. If this affected me I'd be sending out emails to both company's and posting on their forums.
AMD is not a part of the decision at hand. Keep the blame where it belongs.
Posted on Reply
#25
Super XP
It looks like MSI don't want people buying there motherboards at all.
The one thing I'm well aware of is many people will actually buy a new x570 motherboard regardless of backwards compatibility. To ensure every single feature can be tapped into with the new Processors.

So this is simply a MSI greed tactic that WILL backfire.

Any company that follow suit should also see low overall sales.
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