Friday, September 6th 2019

Samsung Starts Offering First A-Die Based RAM

Samsung's B die has been widely known as a good, high performance variant of DRAM memory, loved by overclockers because of its ability to get to a high frequency with relatively low timings. However, B die has been discontinued and now Samsung started offering its replacement in form of the newly developed A die manufactured in 1z nm (1z class) lithography process. Despite the lack of technical details surrounding the new die type, Hardwareluxx has received a tip from its reader about new RAM offering that incorporates A die memory.

The M378A4G43AB2-CVF, as it is called in the listing, is a 32 GB, single dimm DDR4 RAM with operating speed of 2933 MHz and CL21-21-21 timings. This particular offer isn't something to be excited about as the frequency is good, but the timings are quite high for that speed. Given that we don't know where the A die is targeted at, we can speculate that its current aim is at mid-tier systems, where the mediocre performance is okay and the system isn't suffering (performance wise) because of it. Nonetheless this find is quite interesting as it gives first hints at what can we expect in therms of future A die DRAM offerings. Remember, it took some time for B die as well to get to the level of performance we have today, so it is entirely possible that A die will improve and try to aim for greater performance level than it currently has.
Source: Hardwareluxx
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47 Comments on Samsung Starts Offering First A-Die Based RAM

#1
Tomgang
32 GB on a single dimm is not to shabby, but 2933 MHz and timings is CL 21 is litterly laughable. If A-die is supose to replace B-die, Samsung needs way better spec than this for sure to get my attention.
Glad so far i have ordere Memory with Samsung B-die for my up comming Ryzen 3000 build rated for 3600 MHz CL 14-15-15-35 at 1.4 volts. hoping with a bit more voltage i can cram timmings down to CL14-14-14-32.

Sure A-die is in its infancy, but i will not wait a year or longer for A-die to get better. B-die for life and now.
Posted on Reply
#2
Zubasa
Tomgang, post: 4111983, member: 154607"
32 GB on a single dimm is not to shabby, but 2933 MHz and timings is CL 21 is litterly laughable. If A-die is supose to replace B-die, Samsung needs way better spec than this for sure to get my attention.
Glad so far i have ordere Memory with Samsung B-die for my up comming Ryzen 3000 build rated for 3600 MHz CL 14-15-15-35 at 1.4 volts. hoping with a bit more voltage i can cram timmings down to CL14-14-14-32.
You are comparing JEDEC spec ram to XMP ram which are overclocked.
Posted on Reply
#3
R0H1T
Tomgang, post: 4111983, member: 154607"
32 GB on a single dimm is not to shabby, but 2933 MHz and timings is CL 21 is litterly laughable.
They already make RAM which is appreciably faster, as Zyasa said though it's XMP.
Posted on Reply
#4
Tomgang
Zubasa, post: 4111985, member: 30988"
You are comparing JEDEC spec ram to XMP ram which are overclocked.
Maybe but B-die still has better timming at lower clock/voltage and for Ryzen 3000 timming is just as importent as high memory clock. If not more importent than clock in fact. So no matter what, right now i go for B-die.

R0H1T, post: 4111986, member: 131092"
They already make RAM which is appreciably faster, as Zyasa said though it's XMP.
I never use XMP. I all ways dial clock and timings in manuel. My current X58 build has XMP on memory, but i dont use it. All memory clock and timings has been done manuel.
Posted on Reply
#5
Xx Tek Tip xX
Tomgang, post: 4111989, member: 154607"
Maybe but B-die still has better timming at lower clock/voltage and for Ryzen 3000 timming is just as importent as high memory clock. If not more importent than clock in fact. So no matter what, right now i go for B-die.
Did you not read the thread? It's a 32gb single DIMM, this isn't any old RAM. Good luck finding a B die 32gb DIMM that doesn't cost an absolute fortune. That's the main reason it's clocked so low / poor timings, it's a new die and generally higher capacity kits will struggle to run faster timings.
Posted on Reply
#6
Zubasa
Tomgang, post: 4111989, member: 154607"
Maybe but B-die still has better timming at lower clock/voltage and for Ryzen 3000 timming is just as importent as high memory clock. If not more importent than clock in fact. So no matter what, right now i go for B-die.
I think you are confusing overclocking potential with actual offical JEDEC spec.
JEDEC spec ram are there to just work on just about every platform without any setting required.
There is no real way to determine how well a new type of IC overclocks except to get some and try.
The JEDEC specs of B-die is "laughably slow" as well.
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi/file/resource/2017/11/8G_B_DDR4_Samsung_Spec_Rev2_1_Feb_17-0.pdf

Posted on Reply
#7
Tomgang
Xx Tek Tip xX, post: 4111996, member: 178884"
Did you not read the thread? It's a 32gb single DIMM, this isn't any old RAM. Good luck finding a B die 32gb DIMM that doesn't cost an absolute fortune. That's the main reason it's clocked so low / poor timings, it's a new die and generally higher capacity kits will struggle to run faster timings.
Then i can ask the same. Dit you not read what i ride: "32 GB on a single dimm is not to shabby"
Posted on Reply
#8
TheMadDutchDude
I thought they confirmed that B-die wasn't discontinued...? I can't remember where I saw that.
Posted on Reply
#9
Xx Tek Tip xX
Tomgang, post: 4112010, member: 154607"
Then i can ask the same. Dit you not read what i ride: "32 GB on a single dimm is not to shabby"
You can't ask the same because you're completely confused here, As Zubasa pointed out the DIMM is running JDEC by default, the same applies to Samsung C die memory which can pull off impressive overclocks for the price it is yet has laughably slow timings at stock.
Posted on Reply
#10
Midland Dog
my ddr3 1333 9-9-9-24 2t kit clocks higher with tighter timings than that, albiet at like 20w power draw
Posted on Reply
#11
MrPotatoHead
Midland Dog, post: 4112040, member: 168254"
my ddr3 1333 9-9-9-24 2t kit clocks higher with tighter timings than that, albiet at like 20w power draw
You can hit 2933 with ddr3??
Posted on Reply
#12
Midland Dog
MrPotatoHead, post: 4112048, member: 189118"
You can hit 2933 with ddr3??
yeah with loose timings that are still tighter than the A die in question. Haswell has top IMCs. my g3258 did 2666 and ive benched 3200 on my 4690k
Posted on Reply
#13
Xx Tek Tip xX
Midland Dog, post: 4112040, member: 168254"
my ddr3 1333 9-9-9-24 2t kit clocks higher with tighter timings than that, albiet at like 20w power draw
Your DDR3 kit is also a 32gb single DIMM? Nope.
Not to even mention you're comparing overclocked DDR3 to stock JDEC ddr4 at 32gb per dimm, which is currently clocking poorly as it's still rather new.
Posted on Reply
#14
Midland Dog
Xx Tek Tip xX, post: 4112064, member: 178884"
Your DDR3 kit is also a 32gb single DIMM? Nope.
Not to even mention you're comparing overclocked DDR3 to stock JDEC ddr4 at 32gb per dimm, which is currently clocking poorly as it's still rather new.
doesnt matter. they should easily be able to beat ddr3 on any ddr4 kit, heck even the 8gb kits that are sold at those clock ranges have worse timings than my ddr3 at those clocks. ddr4 loosened timings to achieve more clock, pretty dumb if it cant clock aye?


and considering my ddr3 kit was literally the lowest ripjaws x bin id say its doing pretty good
Posted on Reply
#15
Xx Tek Tip xX
Midland Dog, post: 4112071, member: 168254"
pretty dumb if it cant clock aye?
This is stock what are you expecting? 3866mhz @ cl12 on the first few 32gb single DIMMs? These won't clock well at stock for years to come.
Posted on Reply
#16
Midland Dog
Xx Tek Tip xX, post: 4112075, member: 178884"
This is stock what are you expecting? 3866mhz @ cl12 on the first few 32gb single DIMMs? These won't clock well at stock for years to come.
for the average jo its probably fine but for anyone wanting good memory performance you would probably be better off going 4x16gb than this. even tho the extra 2 dimms would load the imc up more im willing to bet on average it would still clock higher
Posted on Reply
#17
Xx Tek Tip xX
Midland Dog, post: 4112077, member: 168254"
for the average jo its probably fine but for anyone wanting good memory performance you would probably be better off going 4x16gb than this. even tho the extra 2 dimms would load the imc up more im willing to bet on average it would still clock higher
This is not for the average joe, what average joe will even consider such memory capacity? This kit is to RAM (literally) lots of memory capacity into a system with few DIMMs - which lower capacity DIMMs will not offer.
Posted on Reply
#18
Midland Dog
Xx Tek Tip xX, post: 4112078, member: 178884"
This is not for the average joe, what average joe will even consider such memory capacity? This kit is to RAM (literally) lots of memory capacity into a system with few DIMMs - which lower capacity DIMMs will not offer.
the average jo doesnt know what a dimm is remember. if this was ECC registered i would have no complaint but because A die replaces B die i have an issue with it. Sure a smaller kit would clock higher, but probably not by much, tbh they should have kept bdie alive

unrelated but its a different idea, would SODIMMS clock higher as the pcb is smaller and hence the data has less difference to travel or would it introduce crosstalk due to being more dense
Posted on Reply
#19
londiste
Tomgang, post: 4111983, member: 154607"
32 GB on a single dimm is not to shabby, but 2933 MHz and timings is CL 21 is litterly laughable. If A-die is supose to replace B-die, Samsung needs way better spec than this for sure to get my attention.
Glad so far i have ordere Memory with Samsung B-die for my up comming Ryzen 3000 build rated for 3600 MHz CL 14-15-15-35 at 1.4 volts. hoping with a bit more voltage i can cram timmings down to CL14-14-14-32.
As someone said above - JEDEC Spec. Most notable there is the voltage. DDR4 by spec is 1.2V and by that measure 2399CL21 isn't half bad.
How the same chips perform with 1.35V is still an open question.
Posted on Reply
#20
Midland Dog
londiste, post: 4112091, member: 169790"
As someone said above - JEDEC Spec. Most notable there is the voltage. DDR4 by spec is 1.2V and by that measure 2399CL21 isn't half bad.
How the same chips perform with 1.35V is still an open question.
how high does ddr4 scale with vdimm? my ddr3 kit scales all the way up to 1.95vdimm past that i would probably need to use active cooling to see any gain at all
Posted on Reply
#21
Xx Tek Tip xX
Midland Dog, post: 4112092, member: 168254"
how high does ddr4 scale with vdimm? my ddr3 kit scales all the way up to 1.95vdimm past that i would probably need to use active cooling to see any gain at all
1.5V max for b-die generally and 1.45V for Hynix.
Posted on Reply
#22
londiste
Midland Dog, post: 4112092, member: 168254"
how high does ddr4 scale with vdimm? my ddr3 kit scales all the way up to 1.95vdimm past that i would probably need to use active cooling to see any gain at all
When comparing keep in mind that DDR3 spec voltage is 1.5V.
Posted on Reply
#23
notb
Tomgang, post: 4111983, member: 154607"
32 GB on a single dimm is not to shabby, but 2933 MHz and timings is CL 21 is litterly laughable
2933 MHz is fast enough and hardly anyone cares about timings.

Basically, Samsung made a proper RAM for normal people - not to attract overclockers and such. This should keep the price down. Good stuff.
Posted on Reply
#24
MrPotatoHead
Makes no difference, some of the bdie ram is only rated 2133 ddr4 and clock up to 4000+ etc these could well overclock pretty good as well, though no one knows so it's useless arguing over their jedec speed as that usually doesn't mean they won't clock like shit off a shovel
Posted on Reply
#25
Vya Domus
MrPotatoHead, post: 4112123, member: 189118"
Makes no difference, some of the bdie ram is only rated 2133 ddr4 and clock up to 4000+ etc these could well overclock pretty good as well, though no one knows so it's useless arguing over their jedec speed as that usually doesn't mean they won't clock like shit off a shovel
That's because these chips don't actually vary that much, even though some might be binned the variance wont ever be that massive.
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