Wednesday, January 1st 2020

AMD CEO To Unveil "Zen 3" Microarchitecture at CES 2020

A prominent Taiwanese newspaper reported that AMD will formally unveil its next-generation "Zen 3" CPU microarchitecture at the 2020 International CES. Company CEO Dr Lisa Su will head an address revealing three key client-segment products under the new 4th generation Ryzen processor family, and the company's 3rd generation EPYC enterprise processor family based on the "Milan" MCM that succeeds "Rome." AMD is keen on developing an HEDT version of "Milan" for the 4th generation Ryzen Threadripper family, codenamed "Genesis Peak."

The bulk of the client-segment will be addressed by two distinct developments, "Vermeer" and "Renoir." The "Vermeer" processor is a client-desktop MCM that succeeds "Matisse," and will implement "Zen 3" chiplets. "Renoir," on the other hand, is expected to be a monolithic APU that combines "Zen 2" CPU cores with an iGPU based on the "Vega" graphics architecture, with updated display- and multimedia-engines from "Navi." The common thread between "Milan," "Genesis Peak," and "Vermeer" is the "Zen 3" chiplet, which AMD will build on the new 7 nm EUV silicon fabrication process at TSMC. AMD stated that "Zen 3" will have IPC increases in line with a new microarchitecture.
Source: chiakokhua aka Retired Engineer (Twitter)
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38 Comments on AMD CEO To Unveil "Zen 3" Microarchitecture at CES 2020

#1
m4dn355
I can't wait to watch live feed! Lisa to rule them all
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#2
R0H1T
If zen3 is going to be unveiled at CES then we can probably expect retail chips to debut 2-3 quarters from now, as usual with low availability. Also let's see what Milan brings us :toast:

128c or 256c are still probably some time away.
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#3
BArms
CES 2020 runs from Jan 7 - 10. YW.
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#4
HD64G
Zen3 will be sold for servers first as soon as possible due to higher profit margins and very high demand. Close to the end of 2020 for desktops is my best guess. At least for now Zen+ and Zen2 cover every PC need. Mobiles is the segment where AMD needs something better than the existent ones.
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#5
TheLostSwede
HD64G
Zen3 will be sold for servers first as soon as possible due to higher profit margins and very high demand. Close to the end of 2020 for desktops is my best guess. At least for now Zen+ and Zen2 cover every PC need. Mobiles is the segment where AMD needs something better than the existent ones.
Why close to end of 2020? Most likely they'll do the same as this year, announcement at Computex and launch in Q3. Mobile Zen 2 announcement at CES.
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#6
Assimilator
I don't understand why the APUs always get the short end of the stick by being a generation behind. I guess it's just a question of engineering resources at AMD, but I hope that they will eventually be able to offer APUs that are on par with their CPUs for performance.
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#7
Wale
Yey gone make ryzen 5 3600 cheaper...waiting
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#8
candle_86
Assimilator
I don't understand why the APUs always get the short end of the stick by being a generation behind. I guess it's just a question of engineering resources at AMD, but I hope that they will eventually be able to offer APUs that are on par with their CPUs for performance.
Because the market that cares about apu's is the budget segment
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#9
notb
Assimilator
I don't understand why the APUs always get the short end of the stick by being a generation behind. I guess it's just a question of engineering resources at AMD, but I hope that they will eventually be able to offer APUs that are on par with their CPUs for performance.
It's not about APUs. It's about OEMs.

For whatever reason (I'm sure everyone here has a theory...) it's hard for AMD to get contracts with OEMs with Zen SoCs.
APUs are mostly for the OEM segment (mobile in 100%).

AMD simply focuses on the high-end DIY desktops (of course apart from servers).
Which is fine because that's the segment Zen shines the most and, being brutally honest, the one that they're able to cover with Zen die supply.
candle_86
Because the market that cares about apu's is the budget segment
That's not even remotely true. Most of APUs go into OEM business desktops and notebooks. These are high margin territories.
Posted on Reply
#10
Tomorrow
R0H1T
If zen3 is going to be unveiled at CES then we can probably expect retail chips to debut 2-3 quarters from now, as usual with low availability. Also let's see what Milan brings us :toast:

128c or 256c are still probably some time away.
CES will give us just a high level overview and perhaps a small glimpse of performance like 3700X or 3800X vs 9900K at last years CES. No detailed specs or SKU's. No mention of price.
Computex in June will give us SKU's and prices and Q3 will be launch. That's my guess. Pretty much like last year with Ryzen 3000.

Also i believe the paper is incorrect about Picasso. That should be 12nm Zen+.
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#11
candle_86
notb
It's not about APUs. It's about OEMs.

For whatever reason (I'm sure everyone here has a theory...) it's hard for AMD to get contracts with OEMs with Zen SoCs.
APUs are mostly for the OEM segment (mobile in 100%).

AMD simply focuses on the high-end DIY desktops (of course apart from servers).
Which is fine because that's the segment Zen shines the most and, being brutally honest, the one that they're able to cover with Zen die supply.


That's not even remotely true. Most of APUs go into OEM business desktops and notebooks. These are high margin territories.
Not amd apu's,
Posted on Reply
#12
notb
candle_86
Not amd apu's,
I'm not sure what you mean.

At this very moment AMD Zen APUs aren't really used anywhere on large scale.
But there is a lot of potential to compete with Intel in both business and mobile segments (and the best paying overlap in particular).
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#13
PooPipeBoy
BArms
CES 2020 runs from Jan 7 - 10. YW.
Thanks. The original post forgot to even mention a date, which isn't helpful at all for those of us who know nothing about CES.
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#14
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Sad they're still not putting Navi in APUs.
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#15
Metroid
AMD getting ready for 5nm and 3nm cpus and in the meantime, intel is launching a new more advanced "14nm" 125 tdp but realistically 300 watts cpu, hard times for intel in the coming years.
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#16
DeathtoGnomes
Since not everyone can read the newspaper there @btarunr, how about getting a translation to go along with that next time.
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#17
Crackong
I bet there will be tease for Zen3 + Mobile Zen2 announcement.
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#18
Darmok N Jalad
Assimilator
I don't understand why the APUs always get the short end of the stick by being a generation behind. I guess it's just a question of engineering resources at AMD, but I hope that they will eventually be able to offer APUs that are on par with their CPUs for performance.
Yes, and they need a compelling product. Right now, they make a decent mobile APU in terms of performance, but not so much for battery life. It might be one reason they are sticking with Vega, as maybe they just want refined architectures that can be run at lower voltages. Still, I think they want as much server share as they can get, and the whole architecture is designed for that first and foremost. The fact that we can enjoy them on the desktop is a nice bonus. :)
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#19
chodaboy19
RIP intel... and my poor INTC shares... :D
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#20
ShurikN
This pleases me, as it might bring R5 3600 prices down. And I'll still have the option to upgrade to 4th gen if I get bored with 3rd.
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#21
R0H1T
Darmok N Jalad
Yes, and they need a compelling product. Right now, they make a decent mobile APU in terms of performance, but not so much for battery life. It might be one reason they are sticking with Vega, as maybe they just want refined architectures that can be run at lower voltages. Still, I think they want as much server share as they can get, and the whole architecture is designed for that first and foremost. The fact that we can enjoy them on the desktop is a nice bonus. :)
That's not totally accurate, AMD's zen+ APU compare well upto WHL roughly in performance as well as battery life, where they lose out is core count as Intel offers 4c & 8c on 14nm. ICL unsurprisingly beats it because of 10nm & an IPC boost. The gap will be narrower if not totally obliterated with Renoir, provided we're not using better memory type for one of the testbeds.
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#22
Anymal
PooPipeBoy
Thanks. The original post forgot to even mention a date, which isn't helpful at all for those of us who know nothing about CES.
I am 100% sure google would help you in miliseconds.
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#23
Darmok N Jalad
C
Anymal
I am 100% sure google would help you in miliseconds.
That’s what I did before I saw it was in the comments. Yes, it’s not hard, but I agree that it would have been a nice touch to have mentioned the date in the article. I think most of us probably know that CES is a trade show, but the dates of the event are less obvious.
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#24
TheinsanegamerN
R0H1T
That's not totally accurate, AMD's zen+ APU compare well upto WHL roughly in performance as well as battery life, where they lose out is core count as Intel offers 4c & 8c on 14nm. ICL unsurprisingly beats it because of 10nm & an IPC boost. The gap will be narrower if not totally obliterated with Renoir, provided we're not using better memory type for one of the testbeds.
AMD still struggles against Intel's 14nm. The only AMD laptop that has comparable battery life to 14nm intel is the new thinkpad t495, and notably, the t495 restricts the AMD chip to a lower TDP and reduces its clock rates more agressively then the intel model. Everything else shows considerably worse battery life numbers, which would line up with claims that AMD's drivers and software support for OEMs is still quite poor.

AMD cant "finewine" their way into OEM's hands. They need to deliver a competitive product, day 1. As long as their mobile chips are a generation behind, it shows a lack of willigness to commit the resources to the mobile market. There is no reason the 4000 series APUs shouldn't be zen 3 cores with a navi GPU, and a full speed memory controller FFS! (their 3000 series APUs are limited to 2400, while their desktop 2000 series can push 2933, and their APUs are memory bandwidth limited. Meanwhile, intel is pushing 3733 in mobile).
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#25
mainlate
Hopefully Renoir APUs do not have PCIe interface limited to 8x anymore. Even Intel´s lowest end Coffee Lake Celeron has 16x. And make Ryzen 4000 single CCD CPUS to have full memory write speed performance.
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