Saturday, January 7th 2023
AMD Ryzen 7040 Series "Phoenix Point" Mobile Processor I/O Detailed: Lacks PCIe Gen 5
The online datasheets of some of the first AMD Ryzen 7040 series "Phoenix Point" mobile processors went live, detailing the processor's I/O feature-set. We learn that AMD has decided to give PCI-Express Gen 5 a skip with this silicon, at least in its mobile avatar. The Ryzen 7040 SoC puts out a total of 20 PCI-Express Gen 4 lanes, all of which are "usable" (i.e. don't count 4 lanes toward chipset-bus). This would mean that the silicon has a full PCI-Express 4.0 x16 interface for discrete graphics, and a PCI-Express 4.0 x4 link for a CPU-attached M.2 NVMe slot; unlike the "Raphael" desktop MCM and the "Dragon Range" mobile MCM, whose client I/O dies put out a total of 28 Gen 5 lanes (24 usable, with x16 PEG + two x4 toward CPU-attached M.2 slots).
Another interesting aspect about "Phoenix Point" is its memory controllers. The SoC features a dual-channel (four sub-channel) DDR5 memory interface, besides support for LPDDR5 and LPDDR5x. DDR5-5600 and LPDDR5-7600 are the native speeds supported. What's really interesting is the maximum amount of memory supported, which stands at 256 GB—double that of "Raphael" and "Dragon Range," which top out at 128 GB. This bodes well for the eventual Socket AM5 APUs AMD will design based on the "Phoenix Point" silicon. Older Ryzen 5000G "Cezanne" desktop APUs are known for superior memory overclocking capabilities to 5000X "Vermeer," with the monolithic nature of the silicon favoring latencies. Something similar could be expected from "Phoenix Point."
The iGPU of the Ryzen 7040 series in its top avatar will have the branding "Radeon 780M," an upgrade from the "Radeon 680M" of the top iGPU option available with the "Rembrandt" silicon and its RDNA2-based iGPU. The new 780M is based on the latest RDNA3 graphics architecture, and packs 12 compute units (768 stream processors), with the same dual-instruction issue rate capabilities as the desktop Radeon RX 7900 series GPUs; and matrix-math accelerators (these are besides the dedicated XDNA AI accelerator present on the "Phoenix Point" silicon). The iGPU has engine clocks as high as 2.90 GHz.
The iGPU of "Phoenix Point" is confirmed to feature AMD's latest Radiance Display Engine, with support for DisplayPort 2.1 UHBR10 and HDMI 2.1, with native support for 8K 60 Hz displays with a single cable. It also features the latest VCN media engine, with hardware-accelerated AV1 encoding up to 4K @ 240 Hz 10 bpc, and 4320p @ 175 Hz 8 bpc H.265; and hardware-accelerated decoding of nearly all standard resolutions/bit-depth/framerates of MPEG2, VC1, VP9, H.264, H.265, and AV1.
Built on the 4 nm EUV foundry node at TSMC, the "Phoenix Point" monolithic silicon has a die-area of 178 mm², and a transistor-count of 25 billion. Besides the iGPU, it features a single 8-core "Zen 4" CCX. Each of the 8 CPU cores has 1 MB of dedicated L2 cache, and share 32 MB of L3 cache.Many Thanks to TumbleGeorge for the tip!
Source:
AMD
Another interesting aspect about "Phoenix Point" is its memory controllers. The SoC features a dual-channel (four sub-channel) DDR5 memory interface, besides support for LPDDR5 and LPDDR5x. DDR5-5600 and LPDDR5-7600 are the native speeds supported. What's really interesting is the maximum amount of memory supported, which stands at 256 GB—double that of "Raphael" and "Dragon Range," which top out at 128 GB. This bodes well for the eventual Socket AM5 APUs AMD will design based on the "Phoenix Point" silicon. Older Ryzen 5000G "Cezanne" desktop APUs are known for superior memory overclocking capabilities to 5000X "Vermeer," with the monolithic nature of the silicon favoring latencies. Something similar could be expected from "Phoenix Point."
The iGPU of "Phoenix Point" is confirmed to feature AMD's latest Radiance Display Engine, with support for DisplayPort 2.1 UHBR10 and HDMI 2.1, with native support for 8K 60 Hz displays with a single cable. It also features the latest VCN media engine, with hardware-accelerated AV1 encoding up to 4K @ 240 Hz 10 bpc, and 4320p @ 175 Hz 8 bpc H.265; and hardware-accelerated decoding of nearly all standard resolutions/bit-depth/framerates of MPEG2, VC1, VP9, H.264, H.265, and AV1.
83 Comments on AMD Ryzen 7040 Series "Phoenix Point" Mobile Processor I/O Detailed: Lacks PCIe Gen 5
Plus, some vendors like Lenoco allow you to pre-configure your laptop and even choose 6900HX without mGPU.Lenovo allows you configure your own laptop. You can get even 6900HX wihtout desrete graphics card. Where is the problem?
www.asus.com/laptops/for-home/vivobook/filter?SubSeries=Vivobook-Pro&Spec=34
Each and every one of them has a Geforce dGPU. Did you not even read my posts?
I don't care what Wikipedia and the TPU database say, in the real world, you can't buy an R7 6800H without a dGPU.
You need to find a line of laptops that suit your needs.
Also, is your pic a political statement? Just curious, as you're the second one I've seen with a pic of him here.
Here are the links:
Ryzen 9 7940HS
Ryzen 7 7840HS
Ryzen 5 7640HS
P.S. L3 is only 16MB. Less than what Dragon Range(Raphael) has.
www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-ryzen-7040-series-phoenix-point-mobile-processor-i-o-detailed-lacks-pcie-gen-5.303245/post-4923674
I have no idea where these IGP deniers come from, just because products are scarce doesn't mean they don't exist. :confused:
I was specifically looking for productivity AMD 6000 4K laptop and the only option, other than Asus OLED series, was Lenovo X16 with pre-config tool. Those Lenovo laptops were prohibitively expensive, more than €2,500 even without mGPU. Nuts.
Mainly because many regions don't even get customisable builds any more. Those died off in most of Europe several years ago.
If I had to guess, Tek-spek is in the US and doesn't ever shop outside his own region.
The only way I found to avoid descrete GPU and still keep 6800H was to try to use DIY tools. That's why I mentioned the example from Lenovo.
There is only as much choice with AMD designs. Vendors definitely have more options for Intel designs.I know what the context was, but still that sentence was not correct, with or without descrete GPU in the context. You should write me a PM to apologize for calling me names, as I did not deserve it in any moment. I will be waiting for your message.No, he is in fact in Europe and has researched laptops more than a month in Europe, US and Canada.
In Europe, I am aware of Clevo offering fully custom built laptops, but from AMD only Zen 3.
www.amazon.com/ASUS-Zenbook-Flip-Ultra-Laptop/dp/B0B6FZT32J?th=1
The problem with AMD is that they don't offer nearly the level of OEM support that Intel does. Case in point, the two USB-C ports on my 6800H Zenbook 14 Flip OLED have PCIe tunneling hardware and are technically USB4. However, AMD USB4 drivers for the integrated chipset still have all kinds of issues. Worse yet, AMD does not offer nearly the kind of support Intel does for OEMs on resolving these issues, so AMD driver issues in practice don't get resolved in a timely manner. In the end, ASUS is forced simply to advertises the USB-C ports on the Zenbook as 3.2, even though they are hardware USB4. You in turn get flip-flopping firmware updates which frustrate users.
If this was Intel, they would have entire OEM support teams helping ASUS get the software to work on the ASUS hardware, updating Intel drivers based on the interaction to get the job done as necessary, but to AMD, "it's just one laptop model." A lot of the time the trouble with buying an AMD laptop is that you get significantly worse software/firmware/driver support from the OEMs, which is a direct consequence of the OEMs getting significantly worse software help from AMD. Until AMD improves their OEM support, it will be extremely difficult for AMD to make big gains on laptop market share, even if they manage to release a killer product.
There is only so much headache most users will put up with for the performance increase of going from Iris Xe to 780M. For most users, having a laptop that "just works" is their top priority. If AMD laptops continue to be as much of a headache as Intel ARC-equipped laptops, then the audience will continue to be limited to the select few highly headache-resistant.
PS. I have an idea why limitations. Because official support of more RAM, maybe even more cache from Windows is more expensive. Recently, in China, they are betting on their own operating systems...
just go to bestbuy and find that stuff you are talking about, it's not there
I'm just so happy that AMD's APU will finally get the 35W it needs to shine. Hopefully we get more than a SINGLE Asus model at Bestbuy without dGPU after 2 years. :/
Is configuring a laptop available in all regions, or only US? And is the price (almost) the same as a typical laptop, or higher considering it obviously needs more steps to be done from the manufacturer before delivering?
Anyway. If there are enough models without discrete GPUs at price points much lower than those equivalents with discrete GPUs, everything is fine. But there aren't always. People pointing at "no discrete GPU" models, shouldn't be counting Atom based models. Yes they are without discrete GPUs, but they are crap. We are compaining about strong iGPUs getting pared with what someone would describe as mid to low end discrete GPUs. Putting a GTX 1650 or an RTX 3050 next to a 6600U, does make sense for people not having another system, but when the "no discrete GPU" options are limited, or even non existed(in some markets), that's at least annoying. I was ready to get a 6600U/H in last summer, with no discrete GPU and at a price point not much over 700 euros, but there was nothing available. Gone with a 5600U option. But as I said in a previous post, here 6000 series are either with a discrete GPU, or just expensive, meaning the strong iGPU advantage is non existing.