It's nice to read they are able to sell everything they are making.
I hope this means they will have some seriously inovative consumer chips in 2-3 generations

How lovely, while they're meeting their demands, those are things no ordinary mortal can buy, i mean notebooks and servers.
Maybe a Nova lake-S 4+4+4 madness if I run 32 bit windows coupled with a 4GB half DIMM 32 bit stick and a H910 mobo (if they bother to release it near the EOL of the socket like they did with arrow lake)

Why, reading this, do I get the impression that 18A has a problem? What is the logic in making such a step backward, going from 18A to Intel 3? Why aren't they manufacturing Xeon chips on 18A? Since they have the Intel Xeon 6+ (Clearwater Forest) and Intel Xeon 7 (Diamond Rapids). Are their clients asking for older processors instead of the latest Xeons? For what reason? Is it simply that 18A is still uneconomical and Intel is hiding it? Could 18A as a manufacturing node have failed?

The core information is "weaker PC demand" which may hint to very costly graphic cards, motherboards, power supply units, cpus (yes they also got price hikes), DRAM, NVME and SATA storage.

The weaker PC demand has for nothing to do with those mixed cpu core approach where some cores can not even execute 10 year old cpu instructions, the lack of big dedicated CACHE, the lack of new technology, the lack of proper energy saving mechanism, the lack of proper power saving under load or having to buy everytime a new motherboard because the cpu does not work anymore on the exiting motherboard, right?

Cache is defined for myself anyhting which sits on the cpu or is close to the cpu and stores data which is not DRAM.

I had to check a few hours ago a fact, AVX512 is in a few weeks 11 year old cpu instructions.

kondaminIt's nice to read they are able to sell everything they are making.
I hope this means they will have some seriously inovative consumer chips in 2-3 generations

PTL is already the king of efficiency when it comes to non Apple laptops, besides being competitive with ARL/Zen 5 CPUs. The iGPU is also excellent.
www.notebookcheck.net/Powerhouse-flagship-laptop-with-32-GB-RAM-as-standard-Lenovo-ThinkPad-X9-15p-Gen-1-review.1350740.0.html#c16702485

To Mr. Tan:

The majority of us will never call it that, its AI no the other thing, you pandering to the orange idiot will not help intel stock recover from this current mess.

Intel has lost all credibility and standing in my eyes with leaving the consumer market high and dry. It's another head of the hydra that is destroying the PC market and more. The bubble is popping, and they are already taking massive hits from it too.

BigshrimpIntel has lost all credibility and standing in my eyes with leaving the consumer market high and dry. It's another head of the hydra that is destroying the PC market and more. The bubble is popping, and they are already taking massive hits from it too.

You can buy consumer processors without any trouble, at the moment there are no shortages of intel products. it really isn’t intel that is causing the insane price increase in consumer it goods.

_roman_The weaker PC demand has for nothing to do with those mixed cpu core approach where some cores can not even execute 10 year old cpu instructions, the lack of big dedicated CACHE, the lack of new technology, the lack of proper energy saving mechanism, the lack of proper power saving under load or having to buy everytime a new motherboard because the cpu does not work anymore on the exiting motherboard, right?

Are you talking about amd? zen6 loses 15% performance due to lacking APX, lacks lp-e core energy saving, and has high chipset power consumption, causing higher power draw than intel.

amd L2 cache is lower than intel design. laptop soc hasn't been updated for a long time, and desktop cpu uses outdated packaging.

john_Why, reading this, do I get the impression that 18A has a problem? What is the logic in making such a step backward, going from 18A to Intel 3? Why aren't they manufacturing Xeon chips on 18A? Since they have the Intel Xeon 6+ (Clearwater Forest) and Intel Xeon 7 (Diamond Rapids). Are their clients asking for older processors instead of the latest Xeons? For what reason? Is it simply that 18A is still uneconomical and Intel is hiding it? Could 18A as a manufacturing node have failed?

Intel 3 is currently the main node for intel DC, and the next major DC product is DMR on 18a-p, which is still some time away from release.
sluggish client sales and strong data center sales, there are good reasons to increase intel 3 production. no need for over-explanation

tsurugiIntel 3 is currently the main node for intel DC, and the next major DC product is DMR on 18a-p, which is still some time away from release.
sluggish client sales and strong data center sales, there are good reasons to increase intel 3 production. no need for over-explanation

Why go back? Why go back to Intel 3 when there are Xeon products for servers on 18A? Obviously the 18A node is expensive for customers and/or producing yields that Intel finds economically non viable for chips the size of Xeons.

john_Why go back? Why go back to Intel 3 when there are Xeon products for servers on 18A? Obviously the 18A node is expensive for customers and/or producing yields that Intel finds economically non viable for chips the size of Xeons.

CWF is a Xeon e product, while the 18a-p Xeon p DMR is not out yet, so the best way to meet Xeon p demand right now is producing more intel 3, though CWF is currently the best e core Xeon and intel will still supply it.

You're talking like intel can just pull DMR out of a hat tomorrow to meet demand, which is not gonna happen

Intel is simply reducing PTL supply given the lower laptop PC demand. This is not surprising, and it would actually be weird if intel did not adjust production according to demand changes like any competent company.

The costs of 18a and intel 3 are close, and 18a is a efficient low cost advanced node. All of intel planned 18a Xeon die sizes are small, with the DMR compute tile being 16 cougarcove x, ~86mm2, and the CWF compute tile being 24 darkmont, ~55mm2. By comparison, pantherlake die size is 114mm2

For amd, Epyc isn't just about 2nm zen6, they're also offering tsmc 4nm zen5 products like intel offer intel 3 Xeon, which is really totally normal.

Makes sense. One e-core compute cluster should be less than 60 mm^2, therefore is perfectly doable with Intel 18A.

tsurugiYou're talking like intel can just pull DMR out of a hat tomorrow to meet demand, which is not gonna happen

CEO Lip-Bu Tan said the added Intel 3 capacity should be in production in the second half of 2027.

From the article.

The production of Xeon 7 (Diamond Rapids) is expected for the exact same timeframe. So what we have here is a deeply flawed roadmap where the demand for Xeons with P-cores was never properly calculated, a line of Xeon 6+ with E-cores was pushed to the market that very few likely care to acquire, and now the company is forced to backtrack. It would have made far more sense—assuming management had actually done its job right—to transition the 18A process line to 18A-P, but it appears there aren't enough customers for the Xeon 7, likely because many prefer EPYC processors, while NVIDIA's Vera Rubin wipes out the need for Xeon CPUs in AI systems built with NVIDIA GPUs altogether. Intel's leadership planning is simply disastrous.

john_From the article.

The production of Xeon 7 (Diamond Rapids) is expected for the exact same timeframe. So what we have here is a deeply flawed roadmap where the demand for Xeons with P-cores was never properly calculated, a line of Xeon 6+ with E-cores was pushed to the market that very few likely care to acquire, and now the company is forced to backtrack.

Intel's DC product rollout is slow, making DMR competitiveness lower than zen6 epyc, intel is just like that.

This is clearly an execution issue rather than a planning issue. In product planning, CWF is the first to use foveros 3d, and intel ran into some trouble with HBI. mastering this technology is a crucial step toward DMR.
that is why CWF must be before DMR

Cutting 18a panther lake and boosting intel 3 Xeon is the right move. Also, the current DC market is seeing demand outpace supply, so a lack of demand simply doesn't exist.

I don't see any issue with intel offering both xeon 6 and xeon 7 concurrently, nor do I see any issue with amd offering both zen5 epyc and zen6 epyc concurrently

If customers have demand, then you provide it to them—that's basic business logic. intel saw that intel 3 product supply was tight, so they boosted intel 3 manufacturing capacity, and that's pretty much it. The customers buying Xeon 6 and the customers buying Xeon 7 are not the same customer base.

Customers might have already placed orders and are waiting, and intel just needs to manufacture and deliver the product on time to get paid.

john_It would have made far more sense—assuming management had actually done its job right—to transition the 18A process line to 18A-P, but it appears there aren't enough customers for the Xeon 7, likely because many prefer EPYC processors,

By your logic
amd needs to discontinue its zen5 epyc, otherwise you would think there aren't enough customers for the zen6 epyc, likely because many prefer XEON processor.

Intel has fabs, so its production capacity is much larger than amd's. You don't need to worry about 18a-p output

john_while NVIDIA's Vera Rubin wipes out the need for Xeon CPUs in AI systems built with NVIDIA GPUs altogether. Intel's leadership planning is simply disastrous.

Nvidia certainly wants to design their own cpu, but they still need the x86 ecosystem, which is why they are still using Xeon. It seems like you are just listing things out, and the topic has already strayed far from your initial comment.

tsurugiAre you talking about amd? zen6 loses 15% performance due to lacking APX, lacks lp-e core energy saving, and has high chipset power consumption, causing higher power draw than intel.

the title still is INTEL.
Does not surprise me i got a intel user who tells me about low power low instruction intel core. (what about something else deflection tactics ... look there they are worse etc. ... changing the scope)
When you want such trash design, feel free to pick an AMD 8000 cpu

I could also argue in your fashion and start now with ARM cores, especially those ARM cores which lack the AVX512 equivalent afaik arm9a called. They are very efficient in power, better than your intel low power e cores - and tehy have similar less cpu instructions. I hope you also factored in, more trash intel cores, with less cpu clocks, and not every software can or will handle mixxed cores wiht mixxed architecture well. of course you can run windows 7 on it perfectly with legacy software on intel cpus.

--

the giveaway games recently on intel motherboards and cpu were not on purpose to boost sales?
the lowered intel cpu prices were not done to boost sales?
(stick to the intel topic)

john_Why aren't they manufacturing Xeon chips on 18A?

Diamond Rapids has been delayed from 2026 to 2027.
Granite Rapids is their newest P core xeon they can fab rn, and that is on Intel 3.

john_Could 18A as a manufacturing node have failed?

DMR's compute tiles are not that large, even if 18AP yields are horrendous, which I doubt they are, they should be able to fab a bunch of them.

tsurugizen6 loses 15% performance due to lacking APX

Source for this figure?

_roman_the title still is INTEL.
Does not surprise me i got a intel user who tells me about low power low instruction intel core. (what about something else deflection tactics ... look there they are worse etc. ... changing the scope)
When you want such trash design, feel free to pick an AMD 8000 cpu

I could also argue in your fashion and start now with ARM cores, especially those ARM cores which lack the AVX512 equivalent afaik arm9a called. They are very efficient in power, better than your intel low power e cores - and tehy have similar less cpu instructions. I hope you also factored in, more trash intel cores, with less cpu clocks, and not every software can or will handle mixxed cores wiht mixxed architecture well. of course you can run windows 7 on it perfectly with legacy software on intel cpus.

--

the giveaway games recently on intel motherboards and cpu were not on purpose to boost sales?
the lowered intel cpu prices were not done to boost sales?
(stick to the intel topic)

What are you even talking about bruh

GeddagodSource for this figure?

Haze2K1

_roman_ARM

arm is good, m6 is better than zen6