Tuesday, May 5th 2015

Desktop OEMs Begin Listing "Broadwell" Chips, "Skylake" Arrives in Q3

Major pre-built desktop manufacturers began listing products driven by 5th generation Core "Broadwell" processors, which are having a brief stint at the markets before being replaced by 6th generation Core "Skylake" processors in Q3-2015. The 5th Generation Core family is led by two parts, the Core i5-5675C, and the Core i7-5775C, both of which come with unlocked base-clock multipliers, are based on Intel's new 14 nanometer silicon fab process, and built in the LGA1150 package, compatible with existing Intel 9-series chipset based motherboards, with BIOS updates.

The Core i5-5675C and i7-5775C aren't exactly successors of the i5-4690K and i7-4790K. The i7-5775C is placed in a product tier Intel calls "P1+," while the i5-5675C is placed in one called "MS2+." The two aren't exactly in the same plane as P1K (eg: i7-4790K) or MS2K (eg: i5-4690K), respectively, and don't qualify as P1 (eg: i7-4790 non-K) or MS2 (eg: i5-4690 non-K). The two still feature unlocked multipliers. This places them somewhere between P1K/MS2K and P1/MS2. Both the i5-5675C and i7-5775C are quad-core chips, and physically feature just 6 MB of L3 cache. The i7-5775C has access to all 6 MB of it, while the i5-5675K features just 4 MB.
Since "Broadwell" is an optical shrink of "Haswell" to 14 nm (à la "Ivy Bridge" being a 22 nm shrink of the 32 nm "Sandy Bridge"), it pays heavy dividends with energy efficiency. The two chips offer rated TDP of just 65W. Perhaps the biggest change between Broadwell and Haswell is the presence of a 128 MB eDRAM L4 cache for the Iris Pro 6200 series integrated graphics to use as a really quick scratchpad. The iGPU uses both this 128 MB cache, and the system memory for graphics, juggling hot data into the cache, and keeping less frequently accessed data into the system memory. The Iris Pro 6200 features 48 execution units, and supports DirectX 11.2.
Intel's big graphics push is driven not by its ambitions to eat into big-ticket PC gaming, but by two market forces
  • The influx of high-resolution displays such as 4K (3840 x 2160 px) and 5K (5120 x 2880 px), which are being shrunk down in panel size and used to present high-DPI display-heads;
  • MOBA games such as "League of Legends," which is a rare combination of low system requirements and high popularity that can be monetized in gaming tournaments and streaming
The i7-5775C and i5-5675C will have only a brief stint at the markets, because the two will be succeeded by the 6th generation Core processor family, as early as Q3-2015 (July-September). Based on the 14 nm "Skylake" silicon, these chips will be built in the new LGA1151 package, and buying them will warrant a motherboard change to the new 10-series chipset. PC enthusiasts should look out for the Z170 Express chipset. Warranting the socket change this time around is a different pin-layout, because the integrated memory controller in "Skylake" will support both DDR3 and DDR4 memory types. You will be able to buy motherboards with DDR3 slots, those with DDR4 slots, and some handy odd-balls featuring both DDR3 and DDR4 memory slots (with the ability to use any one kind of slots at a time).

In addition to the Z170 Express chipset, PC enthusiasts should look out for two processors in particular - the Core i7-6700K and the Core i5-6600K. The two are the true successors to the i7-4790K and i5-4690K, occupying Intel's P1K and MS2K product tiers, respectively. The i7-6700K offers 4.00 GHz core clocks, with 4.20 GHz Turbo Boost, 8 MB of L3 cache, and HyperThreading. The i5-6600K, on the other hand, feature 3.60 GHz clocks, with 3.90 GHz Turbo Boost, 6 MB of L3 cache, but lacks HyperThreading. Both these chips feature TDP ratings of 95W.
Sources: PCOnline.com.cn, Many Thanks to qubit for the tip.
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20 Comments on Desktop OEMs Begin Listing "Broadwell" Chips, "Skylake" Arrives in Q3

#1
Chaitanya
Interesting some of those CPUs are 95W TDP again. has Intel decided to turn down power management in favour of slight improvement in performance?
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#2
techy1
well at last - we are moving on... haswell and that stupid refresh was here for 2 years. I wanted to upgrade last year - but it was first year, I can recall, when Intel did not release a shyt in Q3 - thx Obama (kidding :D). we all know that there is lack of competition for Intel, but it surprises me that Intel dose not want to compete for their old client money (those with Sandy, Ivy in their systems) - they have and had zero reasons to upgrade anything jet (except GPU - if they moved resolution up or had cheap GPU or SSD's).
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#4
RCoon
Gaming Moderator
Perfect time to start buying those Devil's Canyon i7s for pennies on the dollar from those crazy people with upgrade OCD.
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#5
lilhasselhoffer
Am I reading that roadmap right?

Does Intel intend to have Broadwell competing against both Haswell, then Skylake? I'm confused. I get the whole enthusiasts being 2 generations behind (5xxx series being Haswell, and competing against Skylake offerings is... I'll just let that go) but what exactly is Broadwell doing?

I get it being both LGA and BGA on the packaging, but that doesn't allow me to understand the 3 month exclusivity.

Can someone explain this? I'm so confused. You'd think if Intel was absolutely dead set on just keeping their market share they wouldn't bother with Skylake until next year, once the Broadwell chips had sold to everybody without self control.



Also, what the heck is up with the memory? Intel must be seeing some issues with DDR4 supply if they go whole hog in the enthusiast market, but half way with their mainstream offering. I just can't understand what logic compels this roadmap.
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#6
Protagonist
lilhasselhoffer, post: 3277904, member: 94231"
Am I reading that roadmap right?

Does Intel intend to have Broadwell competing against both Haswell, then Skylake? I'm confused. I get the whole enthusiasts being 2 generations behind (5xxx series being Haswell, and competing against Skylake offerings is... I'll just let that go) but what exactly is Broadwell doing?

I get it being both LGA and BGA on the packaging, but that doesn't allow me to understand the 3 month exclusivity.

Can someone explain this? I'm so confused. You'd think if Intel was absolutely dead set on just keeping their market share they wouldn't bother with Skylake until next year, once the Broadwell chips had sold to everybody without self control.



Also, what the heck is up with the memory? Intel must be seeing some issues with DDR4 supply if they go whole hog in the enthusiast market, but half way with their mainstream offering. I just can't understand what logic compels this roadmap.
Broadwell is intended more as an upgrade path for the people on socket 1150 who are on lets say core i3 and below and would like a processor upgrade.

In my opinion it's where it needs to be.
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#7
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
btarunr, post: 3277866, member: 43587"
Perhaps the biggest change between Broadwell and Haswell is the presence of a 128 MB eDRAM L4 cache for the Iris Pro 6200 series integrated graphics to use as a really quick scratchpad. The iGPU uses both this 128 MB cache, and the system memory for graphics, juggling hot data into the cache, and keeping less frequently accessed data into the system memory. The Iris Pro 6200 features 48 execution units, and supports DirectX 11.2.
I personally think that this is huge. There hasn't been an Iris Pro CPU that could be overclocked. I've been wondering how far Iris Pro could get pushed when it has access to overclockable components such as DRAM. Given how Haswell and newer looks, I wouldn't be surprised if you could overclock that last level eDRAM cache. These two CPUs could prove to be an interesting product.

Side note: My MBP with a i7-4770MQ with the Iris Pro in it and while I never game on it, I can say that it handles 4k video flawlessly.
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#8
BorisDG
Damn I want i7-5775C now so bad... why there isn't exact date. :( Q3 is just meh...
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#9
GreiverBlade
so then Broadwell is nothing interesting ... except for HTPC (but will always cost more) due to the Iris Pro IGP?
duh intel learn, kick the IGP out of the high end (i5/i7) pretty please ... that thing serve nothing in that range and just add more tdp to the package ... (IMHO)

altho a good thing will be if the 4790K lower price ... or 2nd hand, tho a 4690K is enough i would not spit on a 4790K either way ... :roll:
Posted on Reply
#10
Uplink10
the integrated memory controller in "Skylake" will support both DDR3 and DDR4 memory types
Why?
Because there is a lot of DDR3 chips lying around by memory makers and Intel does not want to disappoint them by using only DDR4 chips. In other words Intel does not support technological advancement (there is an irony here since DDR4 does not have any major technological advancement which would warrant an upgrade from DDR3) in favor of friendly relations with companies.
I myself like the idea that I can use my old DDR3 RAM since it is enough fast but they decided to use controller which will support DDR3 and DDR4 from the wrong reasons.
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#11
1c3d0g
Uplink10, post: 3278035, member: 154252"
Why?
Because there is a lot of DDR3 chips lying around by memory makers and Intel does not want to disappoint them by using only DDR4 chips. In other words Intel does not support technological advancement (there is an irony here since DDR4 does not have any major technological advancement which would warrant an upgrade from DDR3) in favor of friendly relations with companies.
I myself like the idea that I can use my old DDR3 RAM since it is enough fast but they decided to use controller which will support DDR3 and DDR4 from the wrong reasons.
Or maybe Intel doesn't want to punish their users to buy very expensive, limited (in quantities) DDR4 memory, when they bought fairly expensive 16 GB DDR3 RAM modules a short while ago...ever think of that? Not everything in this world needs to be looked at in a negative way.
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#12
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
GreiverBlade, post: 3277962, member: 105443"
duh intel learn, kick the IGP out of the high end (i5/i7) pretty please ... that thing serve nothing in that range and just add more tdp to the package ... (IMHO)
You do realize that skt2011-3 is Intel's HEDT platform, not skt1150. Overclockable i5s and i7s might be "high end", but when push comes to shove, skt1150 it's still a mainstream platform, so expect mainstream features.

Personally I would rather see faster iGPUs, not just simply removing them. Also, your TDP argument is flawed because Intel power gates the iGPU when it's not in use. If I had the performance of my 6870s in crossfire in an iGPU, I would take it in a heartbeat over discrete graphics.
1c3d0g, post: 3278149, member: 46143"
Or maybe Intel doesn't want to punish their users to buy very expensive, limited (in quantities) DDR4 memory, when they bought fairly expensive 16 GB DDR3 RAM modules a short while ago...ever think of that? Not everything in this world needs to be looked at in a negative way.
It's a really good way to transition from one to the other. It lets the DDR3 stock get used up while at the same time DDR4 inventory grows. I personally see it being a good plan, much like how AM3 CPUs were with DDR2 to DDR3.
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#13
Uplink10
1c3d0g, post: 3278149, member: 46143"
Or maybe Intel doesn't want to punish their users to buy very expensive, limited (in quantities) DDR4 memory,
That is just a side effect which is this time in consumers favor. I do not know the transition DDR2/DDR3 with Intel chipsets but I know they did not used this approach back then. It is not a very good example but still you get the point.
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#14
GreiverBlade
Aquinus, post: 3278150, member: 102461"
You do realize that skt2011-3 is Intel's HEDT platform, not skt1150. Overclockable i5s and i7s might be "high end", but when push comes to shove, skt1150 it's still a mainstream platform, so expect mainstream features.
Personally I would rather see faster iGPUs, not just simply removing them. Also, your TDP argument is flawed because Intel power gates the iGPU when it's not in use. If I had the performance of my 6870s in crossfire in an iGPU, I would take it in a heartbeat over discrete graphics.
well ... you realize i7 1150 is mainstream high end(that's a good start) ... HEDT 2011v3 is for a select few who can afford the cost of that platform although "normal" enthusiast user should go on 2011v3 if they want a igp'less chip? hurgh ... i'd rather not ... :roll: (on the TDP both are with igp in account, so 88w for now and 95w for Skylake in the end it's still a higher tdp)

i also would like a stronger IGP, in chip that are meant to have a IGP ... i don't get why people would like a i5 or i7 with a strong IGP ... but most use who get those chips use discrete graphics ... let say it's a waste of silicon to have a igp in the end. on a i3 for a affordable steambox/lan rig it would be good (tho a i3: Intel don't want "cheap" chip to be like that... right... )
tho i'd rather say i am happy that my 4690K has a IGP in case my main GPU went poof ...

let say Broadwell is a no go for anyone with a i5-4460 and up, and Skylake will not be an option either ... (what's the expected gain 10%?) but for the rest that rocks a Sandy it will be good
for DDR3 and DDR4 ... imho (and imho only) it's a good thing that Skylake will handle both ... i feel my Trident X 2400 has nothing to blush about a set of DDR4

sorry, i am one of those old fashioned PC user who can't stand a IGP in a normal PC and relegate that kind to HTPC, NUC and all in one, but those are not PC for me, and i have a HTPC (ok with a discrete, even if the IGP would suffice for what i need)

(on a alternate view ... i would like to see Intel getting rid of all low end cards below a 960 or a 270X, with a IGP that would be sufficient, as for now it's not the case )
Posted on Reply
#15
hapkiman
Why does Intel think integrated graphics are so important on a high end i7 processor? Doesn't at a minimum, 80% of users that buy a i7 also use a discrete graphics card, thus negating the much vaunted integrated graphics?

I considered Broadwell when I heard about it back when I first bought my Z97 board. But its offering nothing over my overclocked i7 4790k. I don't care about 30-40w in TDP savings. I'm passing on Skylake too.
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#16
MikeMurphy
hapkiman, post: 3278246, member: 135215"
Why does Intel think integrated graphics are so important on a high end i7 processor? Doesn't at a minimum, 80% of users that buy a i7 also use a discrete graphics card, thus negating the much vaunted integrated graphics?
Most people with i7 CPUs don't even know what a discrete graphics card is.

It's important because you're buying a high-end chip and expect it to perform. Spending that much should not require purchasing a discrete card for mild or moderate tasks.
Posted on Reply
#17
DEcobra11
GreiverBlade, post: 3278202, member: 105443"
i don't get why people would like a i5 or i7 with a strong IGP
Intel sells for the general and more profitable market, not just a few (compared to the rest of buyers) enthusiasts
hapkiman, post: 3278246, member: 135215"
Why does Intel think integrated graphics are so important on a high end i7 processor? Doesn't at a minimum, 80% of users that buy a i7 also use a discrete graphics card, thus negating the much vaunted integrated graphics?

I considered Broadwell when I heard about it back when I first bought my Z97 board. But its offering nothing over my overclocked i7 4790k. I don't care about 30-40w in TDP savings. I'm passing on Skylake too.
Most people buy i7s because "they are the best" and going cheap, so most of the times those pcs they buy doesn't come with a dGPU
Posted on Reply
#18
GreiverBlade
MikeMurphy, post: 3278266, member: 6751"
Most people with i7 CPUs don't even know what a discrete graphics card is.

It's important because you're buying a high-end chip and expect it to perform. Spending that much should not require purchasing a discrete card for mild or moderate tasks.
well then it's people that could do it with a Pentium or a i3 .... ;) (but they have money so they wan't "the best" for the money not the best for what they need)

example one of my friend has a i7 "high end laptop" because he's at the university (Swiss) so it did cost quite a bit ... (well ... it has a integrated GTX 960m so he don't use the IGP ... woops ) but he could easily do all he do on a i3 version on IGP or with a lesser card ...all that for a cheaper price (you don't need a i7 and a 960m for text processing and powerpoint/excel/web browsing and youtube...)

other example: at my job they replaced some perfectly fit PC's (that are used only for web and planning programs)with a C2D E8500 4gb DDR2 800, by some HP Elite SFF (i7-3770 but still... ) they could have replaced them (if the old one were really out of order ... and not upgrade-able to win7 at a lesser cost) by some Pentium/Celeron/even a NUC (Nearly Useless Computerbrick, /joke )
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#19
623
Intel Core i7-5775C CPU-Z

@5GHz
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#20
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
623, post: 3281186, member: 128856"
Intel Core i7-5775C CPU-Z

@5GHz
That seems like a high voltage for a 14nm CPU.
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