Tuesday, April 16th 2019

AMD Zen3 to Leverage 7nm+ EUV For 20% Transistor Density Increase

AMD "Zen 3" microarchitecture could be designed for the enhanced 7 nm+ EUV (extreme ultraviolet) silicon fabrication node at TSMC, which promises a significant 20 percent increase in transistor densities compared to the 7 nm DUV (deep ultraviolet) node on which its "Zen 2" processors are being built. In addition, the node will also reduce power consumption by up to 10 percent at the same operational load. In a late-2018 interview, CTO Mark Papermaster stated AMD's design goal with "Zen 3" would be to prioritize energy-efficiency, and that it would present "modest" performance improvements (read: IPC improvements) over "Zen 2." AMD made it clear that it won't drag 7 nm DUV over more than one microarchitecture (Zen 2), and that "Zen 3" will debut in 2020 on 7 nm+ EUV.
Source: PCGamesN
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89 Comments on AMD Zen3 to Leverage 7nm+ EUV For 20% Transistor Density Increase

#1
R0H1T
Zen3 is coming next year & probably server first again.
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#2
Vayra86
That slide really could use a tiny extra line under 'As Promised'
Unlike Intel

Come on AMD :D Rub it in.
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#3
Ebo
Let's see how it goes when Zen2 is released, how it works compared with Zen+, thats my asking, mabye an upgrade or wait for Zen3.
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#4
HwGeek
For Servers- IMO the ZEN3 with 7nm+ EUV will use the current 7nm for I/O chip(by 2020 will be better yields and lower price) + 7nm+ EUV for Chiplets and thus make more room for more Cores :-).
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#5
Jism
10% lower power is about the 2700 vs 2700x.

If they could only get those clocks up, modest 4.5 to 5GHz or so.
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#6
Manu_PT
Jism, post: 4031323, member: 91255"
10% lower power is about the 2700 vs 2700x.

If they could only get those clocks up, modest 4.5 to 5GHz or so.
That´s all I´m waiting for. An AMD cpu with higher clocks as I heavily use high refresh. Then goodbye Intel for me
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#7
las
Vayra86, post: 4031308, member: 152404"
That slide really could use a tiny extra line under 'As Promised'
Unlike Intel

Come on AMD :D Rub it in.
Like when AMD promised AM4 support till 2020 yet 300 series chipsets can't be used with Zen2 and 3? xD
"BIOS Incompatible" haha!

Jism, post: 4031323, member: 91255"
10% lower power is about the 2700 vs 2700x.

If they could only get those clocks up, modest 4.5 to 5GHz or so.
5 GHz, lol. Relax. This arch is made for high-core count and scalability. I'll be surprised if we see 4.5 boost on a single core on X models.
I'd welcome higher clock speed tho. It's the main reason Ryzen still sucks for high fps gaming. When CPU becomes the bottleneck, Ryzen chokes and gimps the fps. Even at 4.3 GHz on all cores, which is higher than average. Tested and tried, with 3400/CL14 memory.

Ryzen is cheap for a reason. If AMD actually managed to put out Ryzen with 5+ GHz OC potential, like Intel is capable of and have been for years, pricing would be way different.
They have done this many times in the past. 7970 launch. Athlon FX. Etc.
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#8
londiste
Jism, post: 4031323, member: 91255"
10% lower power is about the 2700 vs 2700x.
65W vs 105W is a little bit more than 10%.
AMD is much more likely to take the perf over power anyway, staying at the same TDP points.
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#9
sepheronx
las, post: 4031333, member: 111974"
Like when AMD promised AM4 support till 2020 yet 300 series chipsets can't be used with Zen2 and 3? xD
"BIOS Incompatible" haha!
That was only MSI so far.
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#10
Jism
las, post: 4031333, member: 111974"
Like when AMD promised AM4 support till 2020 yet 300 series chipsets can't be used with Zen2 and 3? xD
"BIOS Incompatible" haha!



5 GHz, lol. Relax. This arch is made for high-core count and scalability. I'll be surprised if we see 4.5 boost on a single core on X models.
I'd welcome higher clock speed tho. It's the main reason Ryzen still sucks for high fps gaming. When CPU becomes the bottleneck, Ryzen chokes and gimps the fps. Even at 4.3 GHz on all cores, which is higher than average. Tested and tried, with 3400/CL14 memory.

Ryzen is cheapcompetitive for a reason. If AMD actually managed to put out Ryzen with 5+ GHz OC potential, like Intel is capable of and have been for years, pricing would be way different.
They have done this many times in the past. 7970 launch. Athlon FX. Etc.
I corrected it for you. AMD offers a better value for money compared to camp green and camp intel. Ryzen is doing very well in MT applications. ST is alot better compared to the previous generations and as long as they could minimize the cache latency's even more it will get better.
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#11
las
sepheronx, post: 4031346, member: 16941"
That was only MSI so far.
Nope.

Jism, post: 4031348, member: 91255"
I corrected it for you. AMD offers a better value for money compared to camp green and camp intel. Ryzen is doing very well in MT applications. ST is alot better compared to the previous generations and as long as they could minimize the cache latency's even more it will get better.
Better value, because performance is hit and miss. I have tried and built several Ryzen rigs by now. Performance is not good across the board, hence the price.
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#12
cucker tarlson
las, post: 4031349, member: 111974"
Nope.


Better value, because performance is hit and miss. I have tried and built several Ryzen rigs by now. Performance is not good across the board, hence the price.
Huh?
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#13
R0H1T
las, post: 4031333, member: 111974"
Like when AMD promised AM4 support till 2020 yet 300 series chipsets can't be used with Zen2 and 3? xD
"BIOS Incompatible" haha!



5 GHz, lol. Relax. This arch is made for high-core count and scalability. I'll be surprised if we see 4.5 boost on a single core on X models.
I'd welcome higher clock speed tho. It's the main reason Ryzen still sucks for high fps gaming. When CPU becomes the bottleneck, Ryzen chokes and gimps the fps. Even at 4.3 GHz on all cores, which is higher than average. Tested and tried, with 3400/CL14 memory.

Ryzen is cheap for a reason. If AMD actually managed to put out Ryzen with 5+ GHz OC potential, like Intel is capable of and have been for years, pricing would be way different.
They have done this many times in the past. 7970 launch. Athlon FX. Etc.
Relax it's definitely capable of doing 5GHz on exotic cooling, one of the biggest reasons it doesn't do so on air or water is GF's inferior node. Their HP node, reserved for IBM, does 5+ GHz easily, it's definitely not held back by uarch as you're claiming.
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#14
las
cucker tarlson, post: 4031352, member: 173472"
Huh?
Huh what? It's a fact. Ryzen performance is hit and miss depending on workload and especially in games (high fps gaming that is).

In tons of applications Ryzen sucks too. Handbrake to mention one.
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#15
cucker tarlson
las, post: 4031355, member: 111974"
Huh what? It's a fact. Ryzen performance is hit and miss depending on workload and especially in games (high fps gaming that is).

In tons of applications Ryzen sucks too. Handbrake to mention one.
I'm asking about the x370 compability
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#16
las
R0H1T, post: 4031354, member: 131092"
Relax it's definitely capable of doing 5GHz on exotic cooling, one of the biggest reasons it doesn't do so on air or water is GF's inferior node. Their HP node, reserved for IBM, does 5+ GHz easily, it's definitely not held back by uarch as you're claiming.
We'll see when 7nm TSMC parts come out. Would be nice to see 5 GHz boost speeds. Hightly doubt it tho. My last 2700 didnt even hit 4.2 stable.
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#17
R0H1T
Ah so you're on troll lots of free time mode today :rolleyes:
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#19
Dazzm8
Isn't it more likely that Zen2+ to use 7nm+ ?

Zen3 (2021) to use 5nm ?
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#20
sepheronx
las, post: 4031362, member: 111974"
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ryzen-zen-2-procs-incompatible-with-older-300-series-due-to-bios-limitation.html

Not that I care much tho. My 1700 + B350 will live on just fine till 2021+. In my server.
A friend of mine bought an expensive X370 board and R5 1600 to be ready for Zen2/3 - He's pissed.
Others (on this forums) have stated their bios updates they received from Asus and Asrock X370 were compatible with Ryzen 3000 series. Are you saying they are lying?

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/socket-am4-motherboard-bios-update-available-ready-for-ryzen-3000-cpus.html
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#21
notb
I kind of expected Zen 2 will already be delayed to use 7nm EUV.
7nm DUV seems like a recipe for a huge letdown. :/
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#22
cucker tarlson
las, post: 4031362, member: 111974"
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ryzen-zen-2-procs-incompatible-with-older-300-series-due-to-bios-limitation.html

Not that I care much tho. My 1700 + B350 will live on just fine till 2021+. In my server.
A friend of mine bought an expensive X370 board and R5 1600 to be ready for Zen2/3 - He's pissed.
Lots of ppl did.
I guy I gave advice to got 1600 and x370 board instead of 1700 on b350 as well cause I told him to upgrade down the road.
He got 370 prime so he might be fine tho
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#23
notb
sepheronx, post: 4031366, member: 16941"
Others (on this forums) have stated their bios updates they received from Asus and Asrock X370 were compatible with Ryzen 3000 series. Are you saying they are lying?
Something that just struck me. Do we have any proof that all desktop Ryzen 3000-series will be using Zen 2? Because AMD had no problem launching mobile 3000-series on current Zen.
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#24
sepheronx
notb, post: 4031373, member: 165619"
Something that just struck me. Do we have any proof that all Ryzen 3000-series will be using Zen 2? Because AMD had no problem launching mobile 3000-series on current Zen.
That I do not know. Time will tell.
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#25
Aretak
las, post: 4031333, member: 111974"
It's the main reason Ryzen still sucks for high fps gaming. When CPU becomes the bottleneck, Ryzen chokes and gimps the fps. Even at 4.3 GHz on all cores, which is higher than average. Tested and tried, with 3400/CL14 memory.
What absolute nonsense. Ryzen doesn't "suck" for high FPS gaming. I know that for a fact, having owned a 2700X and a 1080 Ti paired with a 1440p/165Hz monitor until I sold everything recently. What you actually mean is it's sligtly slower than a top end Intel chip clocked at 5GHz. That certainly doesn't equal "sucks" by any means. Ryzen still pushes extremely high framerates and provides a great gaming experience, and rarely held back my 1080 Ti in anything. Only a drooling fanboy would claim that it "sucks" just because you can do slightly better by paying a lot more. Keep justifying that 9900K purchase to yourself, kid.
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