Wednesday, June 12th 2019

NVIDIA's SUPER Tease Rumored to Translate Into an Entire Lineup Shift Upwards for Turing

NVIDIA's SUPER teaser hasn't crystallized into something physical as of now, but we know it's coming - NVIDIA themselves saw to it that our (singularly) collective minds would be buzzing about what that teaser meant, looking to steal some thunder from AMD's E3 showing. Now, that teaser seems to be coalescing into something amongst the industry: an entire lineup upgrade for Turing products, with NVIDIA pulling their chips up one rung of the performance chair across their entire lineup.

Apparently, NVIDIA will be looking to increase performance across the board, by shuffling their chips in a downward manner whilst keeping the current pricing structure. This means that NVIDIA's TU106 chip, which powered their RTX 2070 graphics card, will now be powering the RTX 2060 SUPER (with a reported core count of 2176 CUDA cores). The TU104 chip, which power the current RTX 2080, will in the meantime be powering the SUPER version of the RTX 2070 (a reported 2560 CUDA cores are expected to be onboard), and the TU102 chip which powered their top-of-the-line RTX 2080 Ti will be brought down to the RTX 2080 SUPER (specs place this at 8 GB GDDR6 VRAM and 3072 CUDA cores). This carves the way for an even more powerful SKU in the RTX 2080 Ti SUPER, which should be launched at a later date. Salty waters say the RTX 2080 Ti SUPER will feature and unlocked chip which could be allowed to convert up to 300 W into graphics horsepower, so that's something to keep an eye - and a power meter on - for sure. Less defined talks suggest that NVIDIA will be introducing an RTX 2070 Ti SUPER equivalent with a new chip as well.
This means that NVIDIA will be increasing performance by an entire tier across their Turing lineup, thus bringing improved RTX performance to lower pricing brackets than could be achieved with their original 20-series lineup. Industry sources (independently verified) have put it forward that NVIDIA plans to announce - and perhaps introduce - some of its SUPER GPUs as soon as next week.

Should these new SKUs dethrone NVIDIA's current Turing series from their current pricing positions, and increase performance across the board, AMD's Navi may find themselves thrown into a chaotic market that they were never meant to be in - the RT 5700 XT for $449 features performance that's on par or slightly higher than NVIDIA's current RTX 2070 chip, but the SUPER version seems to pack in just enough more cores to offset that performance difference and then some, whilst also offering raytracing.
Granted, NVIDIA's TU104 chip powering the RTX 2080 does feature a grand 545 mm² area, whilst AMD's RT 5700 XT makes do with less than half that at 251 mm² - barring different wafer pricing for the newer 7 nm technology employed by AMD's Navi, this means that AMD's dies are cheaper to produce than NVIDIA's, and a price correction for AMD's lineup should be pretty straightforward whilst allowing AMD to keep healthy margins. Sources: WCCFTech, Videocardz
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126 Comments on NVIDIA's SUPER Tease Rumored to Translate Into an Entire Lineup Shift Upwards for Turing

#26
Valantar
This means that NVIDIA will be increasing performance by an entire tier across their Turing lineup
No, it definitely does not. They are moving up a tier in pure silicon, yes, but the CUDA core counts reported here are well below previous higher SKUs. "Increasing performance by an entire tier" would mean 2080->2080 ti performance, 2070->2080 and 2060->2070, and so on.

This looks like a good refresh, though one that will eat significantly into Nvidia's (admittedly enormous) margins if prices shuffle down as reported placing the new cards where the old ones used to be. Selling a TU102 die for TU104 prices has to sting, not to mention TU104 at TU106 prices. These are huge chips, after all. Will be an interesting battle against Navi.
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#27
RH92
IceShroom, post: 4063770, member: 175457"
It means current RTX is outdated. RTX launched how many month ago? Maybe 8 or 10!! Well iPhones have at least 1 year lifecycle.
Wow are you actualy complaining because tech moves faster than it should ? What's wrong with peoples nowadays hell i would be happy to see new GPUs every 3 months for that matter .... nobody pointing a gun to your head forcing you to upgrade !
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#28
Fluffmeister
Indeed, and again they don't need use a cut down TU102 to create the new RTX 2080 SUPER, it's clearly just going to use the full chip.

Besides, it's still the same slab of silicon whether it's fully functional or not.
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#29
theoneandonlymrk
RH92, post: 4063874, member: 174545"
Wow, are you actually complaining because tech moves faster than it should? What's wrong with peoples nowadays hell I would be happy to see new GPUs every 3 months for that matter .... nobody pointing a gun to your head forcing you to upgrade!
I agree but also would not like the fact that my purchase was not a bit closer to a fully working part in the first place, personally.

It would irk me, But ,Tbf soo what, They are companies and regardless of when you upgrade it always feels like 3 months, and then something EVEN shinier is out with more RGB, puns intended:):p

Im still a bit grumpy about vega II , I sware I had my vega 64 two minutes.
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#30
IceShroom
RH92, post: 4063874, member: 174545"
Wow are you actualy complaining because tech moves faster than it should ? What's wrong with peoples nowadays hell i would be happy to see new GPUs every 3 months for that matter .... nobody pointing a gun to your head forcing you to upgrade !
I would not complain if it was new die on new process.
It is same die with new parts enable which should have been enabled from the begening. 12nm(16nm) was quite mature when it was released.
It like Nvidia's fine wine. [Though mokes AMDs fine wine]
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#31
Naito
@Raevenlord Not sure if intentional, but for me the title, "...Entire Lineup Shift Upwards for Turing" , does not make sense when the article says, "by shuffling their chips in a downward ". I'd say downwards makes sense in this situation as the GPUs are rumored to be shifting down a tier. Unless you're saying the naming is moving up, but chips are moving down?
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#32
RH92
Fluffmeister, post: 4063879, member: 101373"
Indeed, and again they don't need use a cut down TU102 to create the new RTX 2080 SUPER, it's clearly just going to use the full chip.

Besides, it's still the same slab of silicon whether it's fully functional or not.
Imo peoples should take those core count numbers with a pinch of salt but indeed it makes litle sense for Nvidia to use TU102 on 2080Super to only have 3072 CC compared to 2944 CC on a vanilla 2080 and compared to 4352 CC on a vanilla 2080Ti , same goes for the other SKUs . Either wccftech has it right and they are using TU102 for 2080Super and in this case core count has to be higher than the alleged 3072 or they are simply using full TU104 for 2080Super but not both .
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#33
Totally
Tl;dr

Price cuts without actually cutting prices.
Nvidia is effectively slashing the price of the 2080ti, 2080 and 2070 by $500, $200, and $150 respectively.

Man I hope this is true, this news has made my day. I'm going to run over nvidia forums with popcorn and watch as the entitled people slowly wizen up to what Nvidia has done and start crying. I imagine it's going to be Titan Pascal dumpster fire all over again, would have been awesome if they did this at the 6mo mark.
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#34
RH92
IceShroom, post: 4063893, member: 175457"
It is same die with new parts enable which should have been enabled from the begening.
This we don't know yet . Wccftech wich made the original article has it that 2080Super is using 2080Ti chip wich means TU102 , 2070Super is using TU104-400 ( 2080 ) chip etc etc .

Imo Nvidia is simply moving their existent SKUs one tier down in price wich is probably what the pricing would had been from the getgo ( had AMD been able to compete ) and is only making 1 new chip to replace TU102 as a flagship product . Honestly i hardly see them calling those GPUs Super for such a small core count bump it has to be more than this .

Beside it makes perfect sense to sell existent SKUs at a lower price point ( read not inflated price since they are probably still going to make a good margin ) since it will allow them to boost sale volumes , please investors and make room for next year 7nm new dies .
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#35
Steevo
I would be SUPER pissed if I bought a new Nvidia card and their knee jerk reaction to Navi was to undercut the value of the card I just bought.

Marketing at its finest, any RTX owners SUPER happy about their now devalued card?
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#36
theoneandonlymrk
RH92, post: 4063906, member: 174545"
This we don't know yet . Wccftech wich made the original article has it that 2080Super is using 2080Ti chip wich means TU102 , 2070Super is using TU104-400 ( 2080 ) chip etc etc .

Imo Nvidia is simply moving their existent SKUs one tier down in price wich is probably what the pricing would had been from the getgo ( had AMD been able to compete ) and is only making 1 new chip to replace TU102 as a flagship product . Honestly i hardly see them calling those GPUs Super for such a small core count bump it has to be more than this .

Beside it makes perfect sense to sell existent SKUs at a lower price point since it will allow them to boost sale volumes , please investors and make room for next year 7nm new dies .
And it is exactly these kind of practices that make me choose with my wallet. elsewhere or not at all.
Posted on Reply
#37
RH92
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4063920, member: 82332"
And it is exactly these kind of practices that make me choose with my wallet. elsewhere or not at all.
Well thats capitalism for you my friend so yeah i guess you would have far better chance to change something by choosing with your vote than choosing with your wallet but thats another topic ....

Personally i buy whatever fits my needs and wallet i care about products not brands !
Posted on Reply
#38
Totally
Valantar, post: 4063873, member: 171585"
No, it definitely does not. They are moving up a tier in pure silicon, yes, but the CUDA core counts reported here are well below previous higher SKUs. "Increasing performance by an entire tier" would mean 2080->2080 ti performance, 2070->2080 and 2060->2070, a

This looks like a good refresh, though one that will eat significantly into Nvidia's (admittedly enormous) margins if prices shuffle down as reported placing the new cards where the old ones used to be. Selling a TU102 die for TU104 prices has to sting, not to mention TU104 at TU106 prices. These are huge chips, after all. Will be an interesting battle against Navi.
Doubt it would sting if the margins were overinflated to begin with. Feels like a correction if anything.
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#39
trparky
Manu_PT, post: 4063921, member: 168799"
Stop acting like blind fanboys, more products = more competition = more technology available.
I would agree with you if AMD was battling against nVidia toe-to-toe but they're not.
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#40
Totally
Manu_PT, post: 4063921, member: 168799"
All I see is fanboys everywhere.
Before you start dismissing people you don't agree with as fanboys. Tell that to the guy who waited 3 years to upgrade his/her GPU that now sits in apt silence as he/she reads this news in apt silence thinking "huh, if I waited a few months I could have nearly spent half as much. Not having to skimp out on or put off other component upgrades or just just get better hardware all around." A PC isn't just a GPU.
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#41
Fluffmeister
This is ultimately good news, don't pre-order Navi just yet, AMD may have to drop their prices.

Win win for the consumer.
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#42
Manu_PT
Totally, post: 4063945, member: 90126"
Before you start dismissing people you don't agree with as fanboys. Tell that to the guy who waited 3 years to upgrade his/her GPU that now sits in apt silence as he/she reads this news in apt silence thinking "huh, if I waited a few months I could have nearly spent half as much. Not having to skimp out on or put off other component upgrades or just just get better hardware all around." A PC isn't just a GPU.
Sure, so go on and buy a Super RTX card then. Be aware in few months the 7nm parts will be announced and you might regret. So wait for the 7nm instead, buy it, and few months later then 7nm+ are there, even cheaper. Remorse again.

Even better, don´t buy anything, because there´s always something better coming, wait until the end of times and buy the ultimate latest stuff.

trparky, post: 4063941, member: 170376"
I would agree with you if AMD was battling against nVidia toe-to-toe but they're not.
Even if we only had nvidia, the more products, the better.
Posted on Reply
#43
Totally
Manu_PT, post: 4063965, member: 168799"
Sure, so go on and buy a Super RTX card then. Be aware in few months the 7nm parts will be announced and you might regret. So wait for the 7nm instead, buy it, and few months later then 7nm+ are there, even cheaper. Remorse again.

Even better, don´t buy anything, because there´s always something better coming, wait until the end of times and buy the ultimate latest stuff.
You'd have a point if prices were slashed nearly in half every refresh AND offer some performance on top. They're able to do so because Turing was overpriced, that isn't the same thing as newer hardware being cheaper and faster. So don't try to go there.
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#44
theoneandonlymrk
RH92, post: 4063925, member: 174545"
Well thats capitalism for you my friend so yeah i guess you would have far better chance to change something by choosing with your vote than choosing with your wallet but thats another topic ....

Personally i buy whatever fits my needs and wallet i care about products not brands !
Yes Im truly suffering due to stupid ideals eh.
Im fine with what I have, I wont go on, first world problems.

Im never, ever fine with paying the price of a whole mainstream low end PC on a Gpu($1200)

That too I suppose is a stupid personal stand.
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#45
moproblems99
trparky, post: 4063774, member: 170376"
So correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean that a 2080 will become a 2070 with the same price as the 2080 and a new 2080 will come out with an even higher price?
No the super version will cost what the current version costs now. No price increase.

chodaboy19, post: 4063798, member: 90179"
A chart would be nice... :)
The chart is in the source article.

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-nvidias-super-gpus-unleashing-monsters/amp/

CoreVRM BundledVRAMPricing LevelCores
2080 Ti SuperNew ChipNoTBDTBDTBD
2080 Super2080 Ti Non-OC UnlockedNo8~ Vanilla 20803072
2070 Ti SuperNew ChipNo8TBDTBD
2070 Super2080 Non-OC UnlockedNo8~ Vanilla 20702560
2060 Super2070 Non-OC UnlockedNo8~ Vanilla 20602176

Totally, post: 4063945, member: 90126"
Before you start dismissing people you don't agree with as fanboys. Tell that to the guy who waited 3 years to upgrade his/her GPU that now sits in apt silence as he/she reads this news in apt silence thinking "huh, if I waited a few months I could have nearly spent half as much. Not having to skimp out on or put off other component upgrades or just just get better hardware all around." A PC isn't just a GPU.
You have to remember that RTX line-up was never about value. Anybody that took the plunge bought because they wanted RTX or something faster than what they had. No one bought it because it was a bargain.
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#46
lynx29
hmmm, I will wait for next summer/fall for 7nm Turing, its going to kick major butt.
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#47
Mephis
Steevo, post: 4063908, member: 19251"
I would be SUPER pissed if I bought a new Nvidia card and their knee jerk reaction to Navi was to undercut the value of the card I just bought.

Marketing at its finest, any RTX owners SUPER happy about their now devalued card?
How exactly is the card they just bought devalued? Does it all of a sudden get less fps in games, now that a new card is out?

Of course, you can always wait and get something newer and faster. But that will always be true. Should people not buy Zen 2 processors, because Zen 3 will be coming down the road, not to mention Zen 4 or 5?
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#48
Candor
I dunno. Do they pay people to spread misinformation and hype? I could be wrong but...there's this...

Nvidia is launching a new range of laptops with GTX 16 Series gpus. They refer to them as "16: The New Supercharger".

They were meant to launch at the end April but apparently there's been some delay.

LINK:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/gaming-laptops/gtx-1660-ti/?nvid=nv-int-1h-82351#cid=Internal_GEFORCE_UK_20190423_1660ti_laptop_Launch_CORPWMFG
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#49
Xzibit
These current Rumors are based on a Chinese poster and a German Toms hardware GPU writer expanding on them.

Nvidia first said Computex, At Computex they said E3 so far nothing with 1 day to go.
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#50
RH92
theoneandonlymrk, post: 4063969, member: 82332"
Im never, ever fine with paying the price of a whole mainstream low end PC on a Gpu($1200)
That too I suppose is a stupid personal stand.
You suppose wrong , as i said buy whatever fits your needs and wallet as far as im aware nobody forces you to spend 1200 bucks on a GPU !

The stupid stand is to not buy from X or Y company for some ideological reason . The only thing companies care about is your wallet and that applies to all companies so why should you care about any company instead of the actual product you paying for that's the point im trying to make , but hey to each his own i guess !

Xzibit, post: 4064048, member: 105152"
These current Rumors are based on a Chinese poster and a German Toms hardware GPU writer expanding on them.

Nvidia first said Computex, At Computex they said E3 so far nothing with 1 day to go.
To my knowledge TPU article is based on wccftech ''rumors '' and that has been confirmed by Videocardz ( the existance of RTX Super not exact specs ) so yeah that makes those '' rumors '' pretty solid .
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