Sunday, December 8th 2019

AMD "Zen 4" 2021 Launch On Track as TSMC Optimistic About 5 nm

AMD's "Zen 4" CPU microarchitecture is on track for a 2021 launch as its principal foundry partner, TSMC, is optimistic about early yields of its 5 nm silicon fabrication node. TSMC supports the 5 nm product roadmaps of not just AMD, but also Apple and HiSilicon. "Zen 4" is particularly important for AMD, as it will release its next enterprise platform, codenamed "Genoa," along with the new SP5 socket. The new socket will present AMD with the opportunity to significantly change the processor's I/O, such as support for a new memory standard, a new PCIe generation, more memory channels, more PCIe lanes, etc. As early as 2019, the foundry is seeing yields of over 50 percent for the 5 nm node (possibly risk production designed to test the node), which is very encouraging for its customers.

AMD's roadmap for 2020 sees the introduction of "Zen 3" on the 7 nm EUV process (dubbed 7 nm+). AMD recently commented that the performance uplift of "Zen 3" versus "Zen 2" will be "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture." The 7 nm EUV node provides a significant 20 percent increase in transistor-density compared to the current 7 nm DUV node "Zen 2" chiplets and the company's "Navi" family of GPUs are built on. "Zen 3" could see the company do away with the CCX (quad-core CPU complex), and make chiplets monolithic blocks of CPU cores without sub-divisions. For the client-segment, 5 is a recurring number in 2021. It will see the introduction of the 5th generation Ryzen processors (5000-series), built on the 5 nm process, supporting DDR5 memory, PCI-Express gen 5, and the new AM5 client-segment CPU socket.
Sources: China Times, WCCFTech, MyDrivers
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44 Comments on AMD "Zen 4" 2021 Launch On Track as TSMC Optimistic About 5 nm

#1
Metroid
time to plan my next upgrade and I advise you to do the same.
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#2
djisas
Metroid
time to plan my next upgrade and I advise you to do the same.
Been planing since Zen 1 and nvidea's gtx960. no luck upgrading yet...
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#3
GeorgeMan
This will probably launch on a new platform, not compatible with AM4 as mentioned.
It'll be interesting to see how the prices and the yields will be if it's based on monolithic design.
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#4
Vayra86
Finally, some real 7nm prowess soon. We've only seen the tip of the Ryzen iceberg. I really hope this will be a great node, I reckon we'll be looking at it for quite some time.

("5"nm is just 7nm EUV++) The big jump here is EUV, not the number, this is why you see all these happy reports about new shrinks incoming.

Kudos to ASML ;) Dutch engineering ftw
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#5
Turmania
TSMC seems to be on an unstoppable roll here, nice to see them delivering and doing well, but it will be much nicer if there was some competition in this field. Especially, from western nations. the shift of powers from west to east can not be ignored, considering the cheap and dogy labour prices and conditions.
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#6
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
Metroid
time to plan my next upgrade and I advise you to do the same.
I honestly can't even imagine a scenario where my 2600x falls short.
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#7
ppn
Who says there will be a 5nm ZEN,. because there is a very special 6nm entering risk production next year, and volume in 2021. What is it for, It was meant to shrink existing 7nm designs to EUV. And thats it. There will be no 5nm for applications other than arm processors. Just forget about it, And real density will be 20% better than current 7nm DUV, meaning 50 Mtr for GPU and 60 for CPU. Far far from 114 Mtr that it was supposed to be on 6nm and far far far far from 171Mtr 5nm.. And certainly less than intels 10nm, 100Mtr considering that this number may be very generous as well.
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#8
efikkan
Keep it coming.
But I'm more interested in architectural improvements than nodes, as Zen4 will be facing Sapphire Rapids(Golden Cove). Also keep in mind that whenever we see claims that a node offers "up to xx % denser" and "up to xx % less power draw", it always refers to a best-case scenario for a small chip.
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#9
Chrispy_
I guess it's time to go and read some primers on DDR5.

Also, RIP AM4; It has had a good run!
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#10
Khonjel
I still think AMD should design uArch around a fallback Samsung fab alternative. Why constraint themselves with a single fab that has its hands full with mobile orders?
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#11
DeathtoGnomes
just when I was planning on a new build next year, yep worth waiting an extra year.
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#12
yeeeeman
ppn
Who says there will be a 5nm ZEN,. because there is a very special 6nm entering risk production next year, and volume in 2021. What is it for, It was meant to shrink existing 7nm designs to EUV. And thats it. There will be no 5nm for applications other than arm processors. Just forget about it, And real density will be 20% better than current 7nm DUV, meaning 50 Mtr for GPU and 60 for CPU. Far far from 114 Mtr that it was supposed to be on 6nm and far far far far from 171Mtr 5nm.. And certainly less than intels 10nm, 100Mtr considering that this number may be very generous as well.
Yep, branding is more important than actual facts today.
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#13
Slizzo
yeeeeman
Yep, branding is more important than actual facts today.
I mean, Intel's own 10nm isn't truly 10nm anymore either.
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#14
Midland Dog
tsmc are optimistic on yields, farmers are optimistic for rain
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#15
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
GeorgeMan
This will probably launch on a new platform, not compatible with AM4 as mentioned.
It'll be interesting to see how the prices and the yields will be if it's based on monolithic design.
Considering the MC is an IMC it requires a skt change unless if they want to have dual imcs that support ddr4 and ddr5.
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#16
Minus Infinity
I’m skipping Zen 2 for Zen 3 and current GPU’s for Ampere or Navi+. My old i5 3570K and GTX1070 will soldier on for one more year. The X570 MB’s have been a turn off, hopefully next years X670’s are passively cooled and more energy efficient. I also have a Zen 1 system, but that won’t be upgraded until Zen 4 or 5.
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#17
Mr.Mopar392
Minus Infinity
I’m skipping Zen 2 for Zen 3 and current GPU’s for Ampere or Navi+. My old i5 3570K and GTX1070 will soldier on for one more year. The X570 MB’s have been a turn off, hopefully next years X670’s are passively cooled and more energy efficient. I also have a Zen 1 system, but that won’t be upgraded until Zen 4 or 5.
keep it forever!!
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#18
Lorec
Minus Infinity
The X570 MB’s have been a turn off, hopefully next years X670’s are passively cooled and more energy efficient.
You need a side by side comparison of X570 pch fan and x79 one :laugh:
asus sabretooth is driving me nuts with its pch fan running at 4500 rpm :kookoo:

EDIT:
My current main should be enough for some time but I definitely will be looking at some low power chips from zen 3/4 to upgrade crunchers though
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#19
Zach_01
GeorgeMan
It'll be interesting to see how the prices and the yields will be if it's based on monolithic design.
You didnt quiet catch it... yields will be unaffected by this specific "monolithic design" and allow me to explain.

Now with ZEN2 every CCD chiplet contains 2x CCXs, containing 4 cores each = 8cores per CCD chiplet. The 2x 4core complexes (CCXs) even though are contained within the same CCD chiplet, are separate to each other with a separate L3 cache (16MB each) and cannot communicate directly but only with InfinityFabric through the I/O die. This results high cross talk latency between cores of the 2 different CCXs within the CCD chiplet.

What is strongly rumoured is that at ZEN3 the 2x 4core complexes will become 1 unified CCX of 8cores with shared L3 cache of 32MB assuming that AMD will not increase the cache further. So, then the 1 CCX will equal the entire CCD and will mean the same thing.
AMD will continue using the chiplet design as this benefit the yields/costs/profits per wafer and provides the capability of scalable CPUs in terms of core counts without changing anything. Separate 8core CCX/CCD chiplets and I/O die chiplet which will also be revised in several ways down the road from gen to gen.
It just got started...
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#20
Super XP
Keep moving forward. AMD continues to lead in Innovative technological advancements.
Zach_01
You didnt quiet catch it... yields will be unaffected by this specific "monolithic design" and allow me to explain.

Now with ZEN2 every CCD chiplet contains 2x CCXs, containing 4 cores each = 8cores per CCD chiplet. The 2x 4core complexes (CCXs) even though are contained within the same CCD chiplet, are separate to each other with a separate L3 cache (16MB each) and cannot communicate directly but only with InfinityFabric through the I/O die. This results high cross talk latency between cores of the 2 different CCXs within the CCD chiplet.

What is strongly rumoured is that at ZEN3 the 2x 4core complexes will become 1 unified CCX of 8cores with shared L3 cache of 32MB assuming that AMD will not increase the cache further. So, then the 1 CCX will equal the entire CCD and will mean the same thing.
AMD will continue using the chiplet design as this benefit the yields/costs/profits per wafer and provides the capability of scalable CPUs in terms of core counts without changing anything. Separate 8core CCX/CCD chiplets and I/O die chiplet which will also be revised in several ways down the road from gen to gen.
It just got started...
The key word AMD used to compare ZEN 2 to ZEN 3 is a performance improvement one would expect from a new micro-architecture. That statement alone is very encouraging. Can't wait,
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#21
Zach_01
Super XP
Keep moving forward. AMD continues to lead in Innovative technological advancements.


The key word AMD used to compare ZEN 2 to ZEN 3 is a performance improvement one would expect from a new micro-architecture. That statement alone is very encouraging. Can't wait,
And it’s not even a new one... Just an improvement of the existing ZEN2 arch. Shows how much space for further development the ZEN design has.
An uplift of around 10% performance gains I consider it legit for a year to year improvement.
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#22
Super XP
Zach_01
And it’s not even a new one... Just an improvement of the existing ZEN2 arch. Shows how much space for further development the ZEN design has.
An uplift of around 10% performance gains I consider it legit for a year to year improvement.
I see your point, though based on AMD's own SVP he says that ZEN 3 will be based on a new design and will not be an evolution of ZEN2. That tells me that we should probably see a considerable performance improvement over ZEN 2, in the range of 30% to 40% if not more. And to note, ZEN 4 is also going to be a completely new design as well as with ZEN 5. Not sure about ZEN 6 though. And this tells me that Jim Keller, ZEN CPU Architect did a great job lining up AMD with ZEN designs and ideas for a very long time.

Forest Norrod | Senior Vice President | AMD
- observed that -- unlike Zen 2, which was more of an evolution of the Zen microarchitecture that powers first-gen Epyc CPUs -- Zen 3 will be based on a completely new architecture.
ZEN 3 Based on Completely New Architecture
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#24
Zach_01
I'm taking it with a grain of salt the "new architecture" as all of them tend to exaggerate with these statements. But I believe the uplift of 10+% of performance gains though...
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#25
Super XP
Zach_01
I'm taking it with a grain of salt the "new architecture" as all of them tend to exaggerate with these statements. But I believe the uplift of 10+% of performance gains though...
Hey fair enough, you never know really till the product is released.
One thing to keep in mind though is Intel is in a struggling and vulnerable position and will be for the foreseeable future. I can see AMD taking full advantage of this situation lol
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