Wednesday, December 1st 2021

AMD Prepares 7nm "Renoir X" Processors Lacking Integrated Graphics, and "Vermeer S"

AMD apparently finds itself with quite a bit of undigested 7 nm "Renoir" silicon, which it plans to repackage as Socket AM4 processors, reports VideoCardz, citing sources on ChipHell forums. The most interesting aspect of this leak is that the silicon variant, codenamed "Renoir X," comes with a disabled iGPU. This is hence a case of AMD harvesting enough "Renoir" dies with faulty iGPU components, to sell them off as desktop processors. It is also learned that these chips don't feature all of the 8 "Zen 2" CPU cores present on the silicon, but rather AMD is looking to carve out entry-level SKUs, such as the Ryzen 3 or Athlon. The company lacks Athlon desktop SKUs based on "Zen 2" or later, although traditionally the company sought to include some basic iGPU solution with its Athlon SKUs.

In related news, the source reports that AMD will refresh its Ryzen desktop processor family with the new "Vermeer S" Ryzen processors. Built on the existing Socket AM4 package, these use AMD's "Zen 3" CCDs that feature 3D Vertical Cache (3DV Cache), much like the recently announced EPYC "Milan X" server processors. AMD claimed that the 3DV Cache technology has a significant performance uplift on performance akin to a generational update. These could be the company's first response to Intel Core "Alder Lake," although since they're based on the older AM4 platform, could only feature DDR4 and PCIe Gen 4. Much like the Ryzen 3000XT series, these appear to be a stopgap product lineup, with AMD targeting late-Q2/early-Q3 for next-generation "Raphael" Socket AM5 processors based on the "Zen 4" architecture, with DDR5 and PCIe Gen 5.
Sources: 热心市民描边怪 (ChipHell Forums), momomo_us (Twitter), VideoCardz
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65 Comments on AMD Prepares 7nm "Renoir X" Processors Lacking Integrated Graphics, and "Vermeer S"

#1
ARF
They should cancel Vermeer S. The market doesn't need it..
Posted on Reply
#2
TheoneandonlyMrK
ARFThey should cancel Vermeer S. The market doesn't need it..
How so, or do you mean you don't because the many with a related platform are quite interested in it.

Should they just let Intel keep that performance crown, no.
Posted on Reply
#3
ARF
TheoneandonlyMrKHow so, or do you mean you don't because the many with a related platform are quite interested in it.

Should they just let Intel keep that performance crown, no.
The problem with Vermeer S is that it's a dead end and the next generation Raphael will be launched fairly soon..

AMD has no problem in losing the "performance crown" because it's not important at all, unless you are willing to wave your willie...

The price of the products is the deciding factor.
Posted on Reply
#4
EatingDirt
ARFThe problem with Vermeer S is that it's a dead end and the next generation Raphael will be launched fairly soon..

AMD has no problem in losing the "performance crown" because it's not important at all, unless you are willing to wave your willie...

The price of the products is the deciding factor.
I think if the average added performance gain for games comes in only at 5% on average, it may very well be a bit of a waste.

However, if it comes in at 10-15% average(AMD claims up to 15%), it will be close enough in parity to Alder Lake CPU's to be a viable alternative, and a great upgrade for anyone that already has an older generation AMD CPU with an X470/B450/X570/B550, assuming they can find a GPU to make the CPU the limiting factor.
Posted on Reply
#5
Mats
EatingDirtHowever, if it comes in at 10-15% average(AMD claims up to 15%), it will be close enough in parity to Alder Lake CPU's to be a viable alternative, and a great upgrade for anyone that already has an older generation AMD CPU with an X470/B450/X570/B550, assuming they can find a GPU to make the CPU the limiting factor.
I agree.
Upgrading the CPU is a much cheaper solution than CPU + new board + DDR5. DDR5 is expensive and judging by the Intel reviews they're overpriced most of the time, without adding any performance uplifts.
Even buying a Vermeer S + board + RAM will be cheaper than the AM5 option.
Posted on Reply
#6
ARF
MatsI agree.
Upgrading the CPU is a much cheaper solution than CPU + new board + DDR5. DDR5 is expensive and judging by the Intel reviews they're overpriced most of the time, without adding any performance uplifts.
Even buying a Vermeer S + board + RAM will be cheaper than the AM5 option.
No..

You simply wait Raphael for its June-September launch.

Now is a very bad timing for a new PC..
Posted on Reply
#7
damric
I'm interested in Vermeer S. I have several AM4 rigs running a 5800X, a couple 1600 AFs, and a 3200G. If it's good I'd buy it for the main gaming rig and hand the old 5800X down the line to get rid if the 3200G. Either way I'm getting rid of the 3200G, so if Vermeer S is weak, then 5600G is going into my lineup of work/gaming machines. I did sell my 3600 to a friend and re-installed a 1600 AF which overclocks like crazy. So I imagine people like me with lots of AM4 boards and DDR4 on hand aren't looking to change platforms yet.
Posted on Reply
#8
Mats
ARFNo..

You simply wait Raphael for its June-September launch.

Now is a very bad timing for a new PC..
It's a matter of budget, that's all I wanted to say. DDR5 is overpriced, end of story. Also, don't expect AM5 boards to carry the same price tags as the older counterparts.

For those who won't upgrade and have the money, AM5 is probably a better choice.
Posted on Reply
#9
TheoneandonlyMrK
ARFThe problem with Vermeer S is that it's a dead end and the next generation Raphael will be launched fairly soon..

AMD has no problem in losing the "performance crown" because it's not important at all, unless you are willing to wave your willie...

The price of the products is the deciding factor.
Every other generation of Intel chip is then also a dead end, they sell though.

The deciding factor is in the buyers mind not yours.

Using the platform I have for a further two years might be my motivation for going 3800X to 6950X v3D or whatever, then again I await reviews and could decide to hold out for Am5 as you Imply but I am not everyone either.
Posted on Reply
#10
ARF
damricI'm interested in Vermeer S. I have several AM4 rigs running a 5800X, a couple 1600 AFs, and a 3200G. If it's good I'd buy it for the main gaming rig and hand the old 5800X down the line to get rid if the 3200G. Either way I'm getting rid of the 3200G, so if Vermeer S is weak, then 5600G is going into my lineup of work/gaming machines. I did sell my 3600 to a friend and re-installed a 1600 AF which overclocks like crazy. So I imagine people like me with lots of AM4 boards and DDR4 on hand aren't looking to change platforms yet.
Abandon the platform, you don't invest in it because it doesn't make any sense to do so. Your current CPUs are fine enough.

Next big thing will come with AM5.

You know what?! A Fun fact: the Ryzen 9 5950X scores 9000 points more in PassMark than the Core i9-12900K :D
PassMark - AMD Ryzen 9 5950X - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
PassMark - Intel Core i9-12900K - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
Posted on Reply
#11
TheoneandonlyMrK
ARFAbandon the platform, you don't invest in it because it doesn't make any sense to do so. Your current CPUs are fine enough.

Next big thing will come with AM5.

You know what?! A Fun fact: the Ryzen 9 5950X scores 9000 points more in PassMark than the Core i9-12900K :D
PassMark - AMD Ryzen 9 5950X - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
PassMark - Intel Core i9-12900K - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
Oh , so you also know what everyone else is doing with there pc and processing power?!.

Shame.

And your fun fact means what?, to anything in this thread?!.
Posted on Reply
#12
TheinsanegamerN
TheoneandonlyMrKEvery other generation of Intel chip is then also a dead end, they sell though.

The deciding factor is in the buyers mind not yours.

Using the platform I have for a further two years might be my motivation for going 3800X to 6950X v3D or whatever, then again I await reviews and could decide to hold out for Am5 as you Imply but I am not everyone either.
To most buyers of intel, EG non enthusiasts, the board and CPu combo will outlive the platform's usefulness. By the time the CPU is finally obsolete enough it warrants an upgrade, you are talking 4-5 years later, where a slew of new features and updates are available.

Like who in their right mind would want to put a coffee or comet lake CPU on, say, an ivy bridge motherboard limited to DDR3 and SATA III interfaces? For those who bought into coffee lake (like myself) there is nothing Z490 and Z590 do that z390 didnt, outside of PCIE 4.0 and 5.0, which right now still dont matter, in another 4-5 years when games really take advantage of that speed (the xbox series x and s is still pcie 3.0 unless you compress everything) the z390 chipset will be nearing a decade old. There's also no guarantee that you'll get the full lifespan of a CPU series out of a single mobo (see X370/B350/a320 users and ryzen 3000, 5000, and the upcoming 6000? series, where somefeatures are not available and for the latter two gens support is spotty at best done with incomplete beta AGESA code because AMD wont officially support them).

Future CPU support is good and all, but I'd prefer a platform that you buy once and run for a decade without having to upgrade. My 3570k lasted me 7 years, and I only upgraded to get NVMe boot, a poor decision on my part. I easily could have gotten 2 more years out of it, as the GPU was the bottleneck at the time, and bought into alder lake's 12th gen i5 with DDR4 early next year instead.
Posted on Reply
#13
TheoneandonlyMrK
TheinsanegamerNTo most buyers of intel, EG non enthusiasts, the board and CPu combo will outlive the platform's usefulness. By the time the CPU is finally obsolete enough it warrants an upgrade, you are talking 4-5 years later, where a slew of new features and updates are available.

Like who in their right mind would want to put a coffee or comet lake CPU on, say, an ivy bridge motherboard limited to DDR3 and SATA III interfaces? For those who bought into coffee lake (like myself) there is nothing Z490 and Z590 do that z390 didnt, outside of PCIE 4.0 and 5.0, which right now still dont matter, in another 4-5 years when games really take advantage of that speed (the xbox series x and s is still pcie 3.0 unless you compress everything) the z390 chipset will be nearing a decade old. There's also no guarantee that you'll get the full lifespan of a CPU series out of a single mobo (see X370/B350/a320 users and ryzen 3000, 5000, and the upcoming 6000? series, where somefeatures are not available and for the latter two gens support is spotty at best done with incomplete beta AGESA code because AMD wont officially support them).

Future CPU support is good and all, but I'd prefer a platform that you buy once and run for a decade without having to upgrade. My 3570k lasted me 7 years, and I only upgraded to get NVMe boot, a poor decision on my part. I easily could have gotten 2 more years out of it, as the GPU was the bottleneck at the time, and bought into alder lake's 12th gen i5 with DDR4 early next year instead.
Fair enough, as I said no one person's idea of right is right for all though is it.

I wasn't pulling apart Intel's upgrade paths, though it may have looked it, I was tearing up ARFs, dead end platform comment for the rubbish it is.

I'm more of the gradual upgrade plan , given the chance, and to me using this old am4 platform for something, is better than fully swapping everything every two years.

And if I got Vermeer S on this crosshair impact I would not be that far away from the performance of any Intel part for another year, which sounds perfect for letting ddr5 mature.

My old parts tend to live on for at least four years somewhere.
Posted on Reply
#14
ARF
TheoneandonlyMrKOh , so you also know what everyone else is doing with there pc and processing power?!.
It's offtopic to discuss about what people use their PCs power for.

What you don't get is that Ryzen 9 5950X can be had for $700, while the Ryzen 9 6950X would either get the same price point while the former will get cheaper, or will be pushed up to $800-900 for 5-10% more performance. And 15 months later..
Posted on Reply
#17
Mats
ARFIt proves that currently AMD still holds the performance crown.
We've all seen the reviews, you don't have to prove anything, nobody asked you.

Very few people needs a 16 core CPU.
Posted on Reply
#18
ARF
MatsWe've all seen the reviews, you don't have to prove anything, nobody asked you.

Very few people needs a 16 core CPU.
What is the purpose of Vermeer S then, if in 5 months they will release a new generation?
Posted on Reply
#19
Toothless
Tech, Games, and TPU!
ARFWhat is the purpose of Vermeer S then, if in 5 months they will release a new generation?
You are more than welcome to pay for my new board, ram, etc for the new "AM5" stuff since you think upgrading on the same socket is a waste. I'd like more performance than what my 3700x has while keeping the same everything else. Quit being so narrow minded and inconsiderate.
Posted on Reply
#20
TheoneandonlyMrK
ARFIt's offtopic to discuss about what people use their PCs power for.

What you don't get is that Ryzen 9 5950X can be had for $700, while the Ryzen 9 6950X would either get the same price point while the former will get cheaper, or will be pushed up to $800-900 for 5-10% more performance. And 15 months later..
You didn't say that originally though did you.
But you did imply you knew people already had enough CPU power?!.

So how could I get what you didn't say?!

Great argument.

Countered by we don't know what vcache brings so to dismiss it now is your call , no, is it f£#@ I'll wait on wizards review since he doesn't just pull it out his ass.

And how long till Raptor lake, an extra few months so AL is a waste too then noo , the mind you have aligns with 0.005% of the pc buying public IMHO.
Posted on Reply
#21
ARF
ToothlessYou are more than welcome to pay for my new board, ram, etc for the new "AM5" stuff since you think upgrading on the same socket is a waste. I'd like more performance than what my 3700x has while keeping the same everything else. Quit being so narrow minded and inconsiderate.
Why don't you buy the Ryzen 9 5900X now? Or in the last 12 months? It will be a very great upgrade anyways, and only the Ryzen 9 6900X, 6950X and 5950X will remain faster, all of them much more expensive.

AMD is narrow minded and inconsiderate.

Because these are people with large egos, but technically very limited skills and abilities, they drive the world to a catastrophe, pandemics, global warming, wars, poverty, global shortages of components, you name it.
But otherwise think they are great, great in another reality :D
Posted on Reply
#22
sillyconjunkie
ARFNo..

You simply wait Raphael for its June-September launch.

Now is a very bad timing for a new PC..
Six of one, half dozen of the other, I reckon. DDR4 prices are starting to come down. I'd put my money on late-gen Zen3 over early Zen 4.

Dates will probably slide. Very interested to see if there are significant gains w/ DDR5. Pretty sure the intra-transit top end of Infinity Fabric (questionable marketing name choice) is tied to the substrate architecture today.

Hopefully AM5 and architecture changes address that..infinity..limitation.
Posted on Reply
#23
damric
ARFAbandon the platform, you don't invest in it because it doesn't make any sense to do so. Your current CPUs are fine enough.

Next big thing will come with AM5.

You know what?! A Fun fact: the Ryzen 9 5950X scores 9000 points more in PassMark than the Core i9-12900K :D
PassMark - AMD Ryzen 9 5950X - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
PassMark - Intel Core i9-12900K - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
Unlikely unless my uncle Pat quits ghosting me and sends me a whole new Intel platform for free.

I do not care about Ryzen 9 or i9. I am upgrading a 3200G quad that has no SMT that is currently used for certain scientific workloads. If that means getting a new main CPU then so be it, but it will be AM4.
Posted on Reply
#24
TheoneandonlyMrK
ARFWhy don't you buy the Ryzen 9 5900X now? Or in the last 12 months? It will be a very great upgrade anyways, and only the Ryzen 9 6900X, 6950X and 5950X will remain faster, all of them much more expensive.

AMD is narrow minded and inconsiderate.

Because these are people with large egos, but technically very limited skills and abilities, they drive the world to a catastrophe, pandemics, global warming, wars, poverty, global shortages of components, you name it.
But otherwise think they are great, great in another reality :D
Wtaf dude that was our alien overlords not Amd Intel or Nvidia.

I can see an ego alright.
Posted on Reply
#25
Mats
ARFWhat is the purpose of Vermeer S then, if in 5 months they will release a new generation?
You seem to have an idealistic approach to what to buy, only buy the fastest possible and wait for the next big thing.
That's fine, but you should respect the fact that there are a lot of people that don't have that kind of money,
especially these days when graphics cards cost as much as they do.

The way I see it, with some repeating:

- Vermeer S will work in boards that are incompatible with AM5, which makes them a possible great cost-effective upgrade.

- New systems will be cheaper than AM5 thanks to existing parts.

- Vermeer S and Raphael have probably been developed for years, meaning that whatever roadmap AMD may have had back then may have looked differently than today, where that time span could have been much more than 5 months. We simply don't know. AMD didn't plan on a 5 month gap from the beginning, I'm pretty sure about that.

- If anything bad would happen with the development of first AM5 CPU that would have caused a delay, Vermeer S would have been even more needed.

- The very fact that it's only 5 months in between is a good sign: AMD is on the right track with the next platform.

- 15 % faster in games is great! Last generation was 19 % according to AMD IIRC.

- We actually don't know much as of yet. No launch dates, no reviews, no prices, we know nothing about availability. ONLY RUMORS. That goes for both Vermeer S and Raphael.
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