AusWolfShow me a single chart in this very review where the 7800X3D isn't miles ahead of the 9800X3D in efficiency. It applies to single-thread and gaming, too, so it's not about power limits.

The graphs are running stock. You can spend 3 milliseconds in the bios and match the 7x3ds clocks with lower power, more performance and better temps (due to the cache being on top). Nobody would ever buy the 7x3d for the efficiency. Ever. Unless they don't know what a bios is.

JustBenchingThe graphs are running stock. You can spend 3 milliseconds in the bios and match the 7x3ds clocks with lower power, more performance and better temps (due to the cache being on top).

So you would set a 50 W power limit on your 9800X3D to match the 7800X3D in efficiency in the handful of examples where the 7800 isn't even more efficient than that? Seriously?

JustBenchingNobody would ever buy the 7x3d for the efficiency. Ever. Unless they don't know what a bios is.

Well I did. And I know what a BIOS is.

AusWolfSo you would set a 50 W power limit on your 9800X3D to match the 7800X3D in efficiency in the handful of examples where the 7800 isn't even more efficient than that? Seriously?




Well I did. And I know what a BIOS is.

No I would set - 200mhz pbo on the bios and match the 7800x3ds clocks.

You didn't buy it cause it's more efficient but because it's cheaper. If they were the same price everyone would buy the 9800x3d and set the clocks to the 7800x 3ds clocks, assuming they cared about efficiency. You end up with a faster, more efficient and cooler cpu.

WastelandI keep my machines on basically 24/7, because I like to remote into them. They also run fairly frequent automated tasks. One of them is a file server.

My habits may not be super common, but they aren't exactly unknown either. I believe the goofballs at Linus Tech Tips noted that they do the same in a semi-recent video. This leave-on-for-remote-access custom is perhaps more relevant nowadays for so-called "gaming rigs" than it is for the generic home computer, because you can use Moonlight/Sunshine or even Steam Remote Play to stream games from your gaming rig to just about any other device, phone/tablet/television/handheld.

And of course, "idle" doesn't actually mean "unattended." There's a solid chance that your CPU is effectively idle for a majority of the time that you're sitting at your machine.

Do I actually care about an extra ~20 Watts at idle? No, not really. It's a very minor point in the grand scheme. I care more about e.g. whether a CPU has an IGP. But if we're in the middle of a discussion about how X CPU consumes 50 or even 100 fewer watts in gaming, then a 20 watt disadvantage at all other times is obviously worth mentioning. And in non-gaming MT workloads? Well, usually I'm happy to spend more power if it saves time.

My machines have always ran 24/7 just for this reason, I can pick up the controller upstairs and play games for a bit, or its just ready to go when I want/need to do something, and or it serves up pictures/video to the TVs in the house, and in the winter it runs F@H.

SteevoMy machines have always ran 24/7 just for this reason, I can pick up the controller upstairs and play games for a bit, or its just ready to go when I want/need to do something, and or it serves up pictures/video to the TVs in the house, and in the winter it runs F@H.

Yeap, mine too, I'm streaming games to multiple devices around the house.

maximumterrorE-cores are useless, they are designed for text file reading. The performance equivalent of E-cores is 3-8 E-cores for 1 P-core.

Where did you get this information?

When normalised to the same frequency, P core is only 40% more powerful than E core in Raptor lake and 20% in Arrow lake.

I made this comparison:
www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/arrow-raptor-1-core-perf-png.369503/

E cores in Arrow lake are pretty powerful.

maximumterrorE-cores are useless, they are designed for text file reading. The performance equivalent of E-cores is 3-8 E-cores for 1 P-core. Let's say we take an average of ~5 P-cores for 1 P-core, and the power consumption is the same. Surfing the Internet with P-cores saves 2-3 times more time, because they are much faster than E-cores. And gamers with monstrous graphics cards and economical power consumption sound a bit funny.

I'm maxing my 4090 at 4k playing games on those useless ecores at 30w power draw. Definitely made for text reading.

maximumterrorE-cores are useless, they are designed for text file reading. The performance equivalent of E-cores is 3-8 E-cores for 1 P-core. Let's say we take an average of ~5 P-cores for 1 P-core, and the power consumption is the same. Surfing the Internet with P-cores saves 2-3 times more time, because they are much faster than E-cores. And gamers with monstrous graphics cards and economical power consumption sound a bit funny.

The fact is e core arctic wolf should be better than zen5 and have no obvious difference with zen6.

tsurugiIdle power is very important for PC. Because most people, just like you, only turn on the computer once or twice a day but do not sit in front of it all the time, depending on usage, which varies from person to person.
High-performance PCs can achieve high performance, but it does not mean they must do so, high-performance PCs can also watch youtube and use office, the value of multi-purpose is more important than performance itself, your claim that high-performance PCs cannot do these is completely wrong.
The test results from TPU are already clear, the CPU power consumption of 9800x3d during gaming is lower than 270k plus, but about the same as 250k plus. However, the amd overall system has higher outlet power at idle, which shows that although the 9800x3d CPU saves more power during gaming, the total system power consumption is about the same as 270k plus, and inferior to 250k plus, if considering energy saving and lowering indoor temperature, 250k plus is more suitable.
And because people do not just game, it also needs to be weighted based on the proportion of idle/youtube/gaming time. This makes the overall system power of the 270k plus more energy efficient than the 9800x3d as well.

Idle power isn't important as load power draw is, because most people aren't leaving the PC sit idle 24/7, also reviewers are usually measuring load power draw, not idle.
Just how much are people sitting watching youtube or using office? So if people can afford a high performance PC then complaining about idle power draw is a bit pointless.
I suppose it might be important for some working from home, but I'd rather have a separate work PC for that. The 270k plus has no upgrade path, you're going to be spending a lot more if you want the next gen CPU, especially if it offers a significant jump in gaming and productivity performance.

tsurugiThe disadvantage in idle power will further increase the purchase cost of choosing amd.

A disadvantage of $15-20 a year is massively overblown compared to choosing an Intel CPU where the platform doesn't allow for upgrades.

tsurugiThis aligns with amd product trends, when amd doesn't have it, it doesn't matter, but when amd has it, it becomes highly valuable, like 12 core compared to 8 core.

It goes both ways, I remember when Ryzen launched many Intel users dismissed having more than 4 cores on desktop, or having AVX, or having socket longevity until the rumor of Nova Lake supporting more than just a single refresh appeared in the news. Intel users don't care about load efficiency since "e-cores" help in certain scenarios. The interesting thing to me is those e-cores aren't so efficient anymore, while Intel keeps clocking e-cores higher and adding more features in order to get them to be useful.

tsurugi"I don't care about money, as long as the motherboard supports upgrading" is a good argument.

I care more about the motherboard supporting upgrades since it's more money saved than replacing a motherboard, a few $ here or there on electricity is worth not having to drop $300 on a new motherboard.

Hecate91Idle power isn't important as load power draw is, because most people aren't leaving the PC sit idle 24/7, also reviewers are usually measuring load power draw, not idle.
Just how much are people sitting watching youtube or using office? So if people can afford a high performance PC then complaining about idle power draw is a bit pointless.
I suppose it might be important for some working from home, but I'd rather have a separate work PC for that. The 270k plus has no upgrade path, you're going to be spending a lot more if you want the next gen CPU, especially if it offers a significant jump in gaming and productivity performance.

Idle can mean literally anything with current Intel CPUs, from doing literally nothing to insane web browsing. In both cases, your GPU will consume more, but with CPUs, it has more to do with its boost behaviour. If my Ryzen CPU bursts to 70°C for every page I open, I would be bothered by my cooling system going insane. Meanwhile I can do that with the 14700KF sitting at 40°C and 9-15W.

Hecate91A disadvantage of $15-20 a year is massively overblown compared to choosing an Intel CPU where the platform doesn't allow for upgrades.

Agree for the savings part being negligeable, but platform longevity is only relevant if you want to upgrade every year or every 2 year, at which point you're throwing more money away compared to the guy who will just keep a system for 4-5 years. This also applies if you give the system to a family member in your home, for as long as you don't upgrade the CPU itself.

Hecate91It goes both ways, I remember when Ryzen launched many Intel users dismissed having more than 4 cores on desktop, or having AVX, or having socket longevity until the rumor of Nova Lake supporting more than just a single refresh appeared in the news. Intel users don't care about load efficiency since "e-cores" help in certain scenarios. The interesting thing to me is those e-cores aren't so efficient anymore, while Intel keeps clocking e-cores higher and adding more features in order to get them to be useful.

• Maybe because programming slop going on right now is insane
• AVX is useless for the average consumer, but nice to have for professional work
• Socket longevity is whatever, argument above applies.
• E-cores are efficient IPC-wise but they lack the cache configuration for sustaining very high performance over very long periods of time like gaming.

Hecate91I care more about the motherboard supporting upgrades since it's more money saved than replacing a motherboard, a few $ here or there on electricity is worth not having to drop $300 on a new motherboard.

$300 for an Intel motherboard? You're the kind of guy who's throwing money at anything anywhere at this point, and I can't take you seriously there.

ContraThe same instruction set means nothing when your compiler can't optimize the code for the execution units of a specific core, and instead, at best, you'll get optimizations for electronic garbage.

No regular consumer software is compiled targeting a specific march, and if there's some software that you're building yourself that does so, then you can very well specify which cores to run your software on.

BoggledBeagleWhere did you get this information?

When normalised to the same frequency, P core is only 40% more powerful than E core in Raptor lake and 20% in Arrow lake.

I made this comparison:
www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/arrow-raptor-1-core-perf-png.369503/

E cores in Arrow lake are pretty powerful.

From there: „Analysis of performance and energy efficiency of processors with hybrid architecture“ (2025) Lublin University of Technology

On the topic of platform upgradeability I wrote this recently:

... get an example of a shortlived platform A, in which you will upgrade both MB and CPU after 3 years and an upgradeable platform B, in which you will upgrade only the CPU after 3 years, and calculate all the costs and resell values, you may find, that the platform A will not be that much expensive than B (the cost minus resell value may be actually pretty similar) and you will get fresh platform with better features after 3 years, while the B-MB will be tired and completely worthless after 6 years service, not to mention that the warranty lasts only 3 years. Things break, you know... Also, if you tried to sell it as MB-CPU combo, the old MB will drag down the resell value of the newer CPU too.

I think the platform upgradeability is partly a nonsensical myth, because a lot of people tend to ignore the whole picture of costs and resell value and platform features.

I sold my previous LGA 1700 motherboard for a good price, because it was still in warranty. I also sold 14900K with a loss, that would be MUCH higher, if the CPU was out of warranty. Resell value depends a lot on how old things are, if they are still in warranty and how obsolete are they compared to current tech.

maximumterrorFrom there: „Analysis of performance and energy efficiency of processors with hybrid architecture“ (2025) Lublin University of Technology

Wow, that is an extremely bad study. If they were comparing efficiency and actual energy consumption, they should have intensivelly concentrate on frequencies and voltages the CPUs run at, they should have performed the tests at least at the same frequencies, they even used two CPUs that do not allow setting the frequencies. When they compared performance, they should have normalised the results to the same frequencies, what can you learn, when both type of cores run at different frequencies??? That study is even worse than the simple comparison I made.

Hecate91Idle power isn't important as load power draw is, because most people aren't leaving the PC sit idle 24/7, also reviewers are usually measuring load power draw, not idle.
Just how much are people sitting watching youtube or using office? So if people can afford a high performance PC then complaining about idle power draw is a bit pointless.

Assuming there is unlimited money to use is a good method, but you are still unwilling to replace the motherboard, which is also a small amount of money.
Old components can be sold, Because z890 and 270k plus are more stable in value than 9800x3d, the difference in money can be smaller.
The 270k plus might be more valuable than the 9800x3d years later, considering its performance is 2 times that of 9800x3d and it has a very good igpu, just like we see now with many old intel cpus, whose prices are higher than old amd cpus from the same period.

Hecate91I suppose it might be important for some working from home, but I'd rather have a separate work PC for that. The 270k plus has no upgrade path, you're going to be spending a lot more if you want the next gen CPU, especially if it offers a significant jump in gaming and productivity performance.

Two PCs are great, but it costs a lot of money especially on amd systems, based on the 9950x/9800x3d configuration. you can choose 270k plus and 9800x3d, which seems to be the best choice to play on both platforms at the same time.
The infinite money strategy worked again, so you have money, then you can buy whatever you want to buy, but you are still unwilling to replace the motherboard.

Hecate91A disadvantage of $15-20 a year is massively overblown compared to choosing an Intel CPU where the platform doesn't allow for upgrades.

This is good, which means you get a discount again and better performance. And you can always change to the most fun new motherboard, while your old motherboard stays with you for a lifetime.

Hecate91It goes both ways, I remember when Ryzen launched many Intel users dismissed having more than 4 cores on desktop, or having AVX, or having socket longevity until the rumor of Nova Lake supporting more than just a single refresh appeared in the news. Intel users don't care about load efficiency since "e-cores" help in certain scenarios. The interesting thing to me is those e-cores aren't so efficient anymore, while Intel keeps clocking e-cores higher and adding more features in order to get them to be useful.

I don't think it's necessary to change the cpu frequently, my money can be used for other things of more value. while the gaming/x3d CPU is more about vanity and doesn't seem to change much. CPU, as long as there is good enough st/mt, it works fine in gaming, I can't feel a 5ms difference, I don't think the performance of x3d in tests is good enough to be necessary, as it is very similar to intel cpu in most AAA games. but st/mt actually plays a real role and saves my time.
and there is no need to spend more money to get a less poor 8 core x3d.
For example, intel seems to intend to release an 8p+4lpe bllc product based on the 18a-p node. its MT performance is bad, but the "gaming performance" is good. however, this obviously won't make it sell at the price of current amd x3d products because it is completely manufactured by intel itself and the cost is very low. intel might want to sell as many as possible. But for real high-end MT cpus, intel won't lower the price by even a penny. by then, the so-called high-end impression of x3d gaming CPUs will fall apart.

Hecate91I care more about the motherboard supporting upgrades since it's more money saved than replacing a motherboard, a few $ here or there on electricity is worth not having to drop $300 on a new motherboard.

Sounds like you spent a lot of money on changing the CPU. Lga1954 supporting the next-gen cpus will make novalake cpu prices drop significantly, the lga1954 situation is very similar to amd, cpus always face heavy price drops.
I don't have any special feelings for my motherboard, so I will replace it along with the cpu when needed.

Let3rI’m still so annoyed that I bought into LGA 1851 and then they only gave it one generation.
😭 Wish I had gone with AM5.

Just sell it off. Zen6 might be good, but performance crown could shift either way.

I think platform longevity is a fallacy. Always something better.. even X870 vs X670 EE design in regards to memory optimization.

jaszyJust sell it off. Zen6 might be good, but performance crown could shift either way.

I think platform longevity is a fallacy. Always something better.. even X870 vs X670 EE design in regards to memory optimization.

I don’t want to not know for sure what I’ll get. Plus I don’t think I’ll be able to get more that 400 for my mobo cpu combo.

JustBenchingNo I would set - 200mhz pbo on the bios and match the 7800x3ds clocks.

If setting whatever setting on a CPU is a valid argument in favour of it, then every single CPU in existence is a brilliant one, and this discussion is pointless.

JustBenchingYou didn't buy it cause it's more efficient but because it's cheaper. If they were the same price everyone would buy the 9800x3d and set the clocks to the 7800x 3ds clocks, assuming they cared about efficiency. You end up with a faster, more efficient and cooler cpu.

Cheaper than what? The 9800X3D didn't exist back then which makes the 7800X3D the most expensive 8-core at that time. And while I was super curious about X3D, it was not the main reason I got it. Those efficiency diagrams that I linked above impressed me the most. If I'm telling you my reasons point blank, why would you assume otherwise? Why would you assume that I'm lying?

JustBenchingYeap, mine too, I'm streaming games to multiple devices around the house.

That's not exactly an argument on the topic of idle power consumption, though.

tsurugiAssuming there is unlimited money to use is a good method, but you are still unwilling to replace the motherboard, which is also a small amount of money.
Old components can be sold, Because z890 and 270k plus are more stable in value than 9800x3d, the difference in money can be smaller.
The 270k plus might be more valuable than the 9800x3d years later, considering its performance is 2 times that of 9800x3d and it has a very good igpu, just like we see now with many old intel cpus, whose prices are higher than old amd cpus from the same period.

A system using a few watts at idle means infinite money? I don't understand this logic.
Having resale value is nice, however trying to find buyers for components isn't always easy, especially ones who won't try to scam you saying a part doesn't work.
Newer Intel CPU's ones sell at a lower price so won't have a higher resale value, on the other hand AMD X3D CPU's have a very high resale value because of their performance.

tsurugiTwo PCs are great, but it costs a lot of money especially on amd systems, based on the 9950x/9800x3d configuration. you can choose 270k plus and 9800x3d, which seems to be the best choice to play on both platforms at the same time.
The infinite money strategy worked again, so you have money, then you can buy whatever you want to buy, but you are still unwilling to replace the motherboard.

I was referring to having a work provided PC, though no one is making you buy a 9950X or 9800X3D, a 9700X or 7800X3D are much better value.
The infinite money strategy seems to be replacing a motherboard with every upgrade.

tsurugiThis is good, which means you get a discount again and better performance. And you can always change to the most fun new motherboard, while your old motherboard stays with you for a lifetime.

What is fun about having to replace a motherboard? I don't understand the process of constantly wanting a new motherboard.
What features are necessary that an LGA1851 mobo can't provide?

tsurugiI don't think it's necessary to change the cpu frequently, my money can be used for other things of more value. while the gaming/x3d CPU is more about vanity and doesn't seem to change much. CPU, as long as there is good enough st/mt, it works fine in gaming, I can't feel a 5ms difference, I don't think the performance of x3d in tests is good enough to be necessary, as it is very similar to intel cpu in most AAA games. but st/mt actually plays a real role and saves my time.
and there is no need to spend more money to get a less poor 8 core x3d.
For example, intel seems to intend to release an 8p+4lpe bllc product based on the 18a-p node. its MT performance is bad, but the "gaming performance" is good. however, this obviously won't make it sell at the price of current amd x3d products because it is completely manufactured by intel itself and the cost is very low. intel might want to sell as many as possible. But for real high-end MT cpus, intel won't lower the price by even a penny. by then, the so-called high-end impression of x3d gaming CPUs will fall apart.

It isn't necessary to change the CPU frequently, though ironically I see people with Core 200 plus CPU's getting excited for Nova Lake, that seems rather frequent to be replacing the CPU to me.
But X3D isn't just about having lower latency, it provides higher average FPS than non-X3D CPU's do. I don't do work on my gaming PC and I'm not a youtuber so I don't care about a few mins extra of encoding time. The funny thing is Intel users dismissed the usefulness of X3D cache, until Intel announced their own CPU's with a large L3 cache, which probably won't be a price/performance value but I'm sure the same people who complained about X3D being too expensive will be buying bLCC CPU's.

tsurugiSounds like you spent a lot of money on changing the CPU. Lga1954 supporting the next-gen cpus will make novalake cpu prices drop significantly, the lga1954 situation is very similar to amd, cpus always face heavy price drops.
I don't have any special feelings for my motherboard, so I will replace it along with the cpu when needed.

AM5 launched in late 2022, so anyone who doesn't want to change their motherboard constantly can hang onto the same board to drop in Zen 6, being able to keep the same board for at least 4-5 years.
I don't care about the board, what I do care about is unnecessarily changing the board because Intel refuses to stick to a socket.

RinSenpaiIdle can mean literally anything with current Intel CPUs, from doing literally nothing to insane web browsing. In both cases, your GPU will consume more, but with CPUs, it has more to do with its boost behaviour. If my Ryzen CPU bursts to 70°C for every page I open, I would be bothered by my cooling system going insane. Meanwhile I can do that with the 14700KF sitting at 40°C and 9-15W.

The GPU is always consuming more so I don't see the concern over idle CPU power, and getting a 14700KF down to less than 15W sounds like you're undervolting it, not really a comparison IMO.
I've never had a CPU go to 70C while browsing, though idle temps usually don't bother me either since any modern CPU will boost often as possible unless clocks are manually limited, and it's gotten worse since Microslop forced CPU's to boost in W11.

RinSenpaiAgree for the savings part being negligeable, but platform longevity is only relevant if you want to upgrade every year or every 2 year, at which point you're throwing more money away compared to the guy who will just keep a system for 4-5 years. This also applies if you give the system to a family member in your home, for as long as you don't upgrade the CPU itself.

It's the same argument every time, you don't need to upgrade every 2 years when AMD supports a socket much longer than 2 years. Enthusiasts rarely keep a CPU longer than 2 years regardless, I see people say that all the time but they rush to pay launch prices for the latest CPU's, just see how many people with relatively recent systems are excited for Nova Lake.
Even when giving the system to a family member I could still give them a CPU upgrade later without having to build another new PC.

RinSenpai

• Maybe because programming slop going on right now is insane
• AVX is useless for the average consumer, but nice to have for professional work
• Socket longevity is whatever, argument above applies.
• E-cores are efficient IPC-wise but they lack the cache configuration for sustaining very high performance over very long periods of time like gaming.

- I'm glad I can use Linux for most things nowadays, much of the programming slop is on Windows, and in games it's on overpriced AAA slop.
- My point was Intel took away AVX for a long time, then brought it back and suddenly AVX is a useful feature again, it's a double standard of things only being useful when Intel provides them.
- To each their own, I value not having to buy a new motherboard every 2 years.
- E-cores not having the same cache and performance as P-cores is why I don't like a mixed core architecture. I'd rather the NPU get dropped for more P cores.

RinSenpai$300 for an Intel motherboard? You're the kind of guy who's throwing money at anything anywhere at this point, and I can't take you seriously there.

Decent Z series boards are usually around $300, with Nova Lake I'm expecting it to be more of an entry level given how the high end Nova Lake SKU is going to have a 474W PL2.

Hecate91The GPU is always consuming more so I don't see the concern over idle CPU power, and getting a 14700KF down to less than 15W sounds like you're undervolting it, not really a comparison IMO.
I've never had a CPU go to 70C while browsing, though idle temps usually don't bother me either since any modern CPU will boost often as possible unless clocks are manually limited, and it's gotten worse since Microslop forced CPU's to boost in W11.

Normal (non K) Core i7 14700 idles at desktop in Windows 10 at 2-3W for CPU power, at stock, no undervolting. So 15W for web browsing is completely doable.

AusWolfIf setting whatever setting on a CPU is a valid argument in favour of it, then every single CPU in existence is a brilliant one, and this discussion is pointless.

No? For example both the 7800x 3d and the 9800x 3d are terrible at MT performance no matter what settings you use on them. The 9700x is slower than the x3ds in gaming no matter what settings you use on them etc.

AusWolfCheaper than what? The 9800X3D didn't exist back then which makes the 7800X3D the most expensive 8-core at that time. And while I was super curious about X3D, it was not the main reason I got it. Those efficiency diagrams that I linked above impressed me the most. If I'm telling you my reasons point blank, why would you assume otherwise? Why would you assume that I'm lying?

Then you didn't buy it OVER the 9800x3d if the 9800x 3d did not exist....maybe you should reread what I posted. Not trying to be an ass but i said no body would buy it for efficiency OVER the 9800x3d, they would buy it cause it's cheaper, since the 9800x 3d will both be faster - more efficient and run cooler. As is the case with the 7950x for example over the 5950x. People complained about 7950x being 200w+ and I was like, what in the world, just set a limit or something

AusWolfThat's not exactly an argument on the topic of idle power consumption, though.

It is cause I need to be able to access my PC at anytime. And when im in the house I guess I can get off of bed and go power it on but when im out of the house and I want to access some work documents that is not going to work. For my line of work having access to your PC 24/7 from any device anywhere on the planet is very practical.

Hecate91... though ironically I see people with Core 200 plus CPU's getting excited for Nova Lake, that seems rather frequent to be replacing the CPU to me.

People can get excited even for things they are not planning to buy, because the things that come after these things should be even better and also people using AMD religiously who do not even think about getting Intel anytime can get excited, because the better Intel stuff is compared to AMD stuff, the cheaper AMD stuff needs to be and consumers want to get as much for their money as they can*.

EVERYBODY thus should be excited about Nova lake and also about Zen 6.

* I must admit I still do not fully understand the astonishing willingnes of consumers to buy weak 8 core CPUs from AMD for extreme prices.

kondaminoh, that is nice. More a gamer chip than the 56 core monstrosity.

kindda, I don't see a point in "lots of e-shit cores" in "gamer" chip.:rolleyes: e-shit cores should exist ONLY in mobile segment, point.:kookoo::rolleyes:

N/A8 p cores or forget it. Fine.

no game needs 8 cores, except unoptimized crap which could use all Xeon/TR tens of threads.:rolleyes::oops:
also pointless overprice same as AMD 6 core X3D vs "top-selling" (in fanboys zone) 8-corers R7.

Hecate91Decent Z series boards are usually around $300, with Nova Lake I'm expecting it to be more of an entry level given how the high end Nova Lake SKU is going to have a 474W PL2.

it all depends whether you want "OC" of K-SKUs, benchmark playing or generic PC. No need to overpay for VRM with GREAT "spare of power".:rolleyes:

tsurugicpus always face heavy price drops

in theories only. No retailer wants to have losses if they have some stock. Same as with phones selling "previous" model when new arrives (except for BS that they just "magically disappear"), they make some "discount" for few tens of $/EUR, which is totally pointless when new model costs same "few tens" of $/EUR more, lol

Ex: I can't find previous gen i5 for price of new i3, same for old i7 vs new i5 etc etc. Can't find 7800X3D for the half price of 9800X3D, what you call "HEAVY DROPS" LMFAO

AleXXX666in theories only. No retailer wants to have losses if they have some stock. Same as with phones selling "previous" model when new arrives (except for BS that they just "magically disappear"), they make some "discount" for few tens of $/EUR, which is totally pointless when new model costs same "few tens" of $/EUR more, lol

Ex: I can't find previous gen i5 for price of new i3, same for old i7 vs new i5 etc etc. Can't find 7800X3D for the half price of 9800X3D, what you call "HEAVY DROPS" LMFAO

You don't understand what happened. It is especially obvious in the next generation because zen6 has improved a lot. After the new 12 core cpu comes out, the previous 8 core old cpu is clearly very outdated.

JustBenchingNo? For example both the 7800x 3d and the 9800x 3d are terrible at MT performance no matter what settings you use on them. The 9700x is slower than the x3ds in gaming no matter what settings you use on them etc.

Both X3Ds are great at gaming, while the 9700X has a massive clock speed advantage over them. I don't know what you're getting at here.

JustBenchingThen you didn't buy it OVER the 9800x3d if the 9800x 3d did not exist....maybe you should reread what I posted. Not trying to be an ass but i said no body would buy it for efficiency OVER the 9800x3d, they would buy it cause it's cheaper, since the 9800x 3d will both be faster - more efficient and run cooler.

I see what you mean. But I would still choose the 7800 because it is more efficient out of the box. Believe it or not, some people do find that attractive in a CPU.

JustBenchingAs is the case with the 7950x for example over the 5950x. People complained about 7950x being 200w+ and I was like, what in the world, just set a limit or something

It doesn't help in a low load scenario when a few cores use the entire CPU's power budget and the CPU still overheats. You need a lot of tweaking in PBO to circumvent that, if it helps at all. I had one for a brief amount of time (I know, I buy way too much stuff), and the only way I could keep it cool with a small cooler in such situations is by applying a -500 MHz max boost limit, which then hurt single core performance. I'm not saying that it's a bad CPU, or that anyone should ever use it with a small cooler, just saying. The more aggressive a CPU is by factory default, the more tweaking is needed to tame it. Not everybody is so inclined. I know I'm definitely not.

JustBenchingIt is cause I need to be able to access my PC at anytime. And when im in the house I guess I can get off of bed and go power it on but when im out of the house and I want to access some work documents that is not going to work. For my line of work having access to your PC 24/7 from any device anywhere on the planet is very practical.

That's a fair point, but I still don't think a few pennies on your electricity bill are a deciding factor when choosing an already expensive CPU that is already way less efficient at load than other options (unless you tweak it, which like I said, not everybody wants to).

Hecate91A system using a few watts at idle means infinite money? I don't understand this logic.

This is your strategy, you mean "I don't care about money", but your money only bought 8 core

Hecate91Having resale value is nice, however trying to find buyers for components isn't always easy, especially ones who won't try to scam you saying a part doesn't work.

It is the same for you, you also need to sell x3d.
And you need to convince people to choose zen5 before the new zen6 12 core, which is very difficult.

Hecate91Newer Intel CPU's ones sell at a lower price so won't have a higher resale value, on the other hand AMD X3D CPU's have a very high resale value because of their performance.

It is precisely because it is cheap that you cannot lose too much. The cpu specs are right there, the 270k plus MT performance is better than zen6 12 core, and some people can use it very well.

Hecate91I was referring to having a work provided PC, though no one is making you buy a 9950X or 9800X3D, a 9700X or 7800X3D are much better value.
The infinite money strategy seems to be replacing a motherboard with every upgrade.

Few people change their cpu every generation, you cannot represent the majority.

Hecate91What is fun about having to replace a motherboard? I don't understand the process of constantly wanting a new motherboard.
What features are necessary that an LGA1851 mobo can't provide?

You need to replace your cpu frequently, you cannot represent the majority. You spend much more money on the cpu and motherboard than most people, you need to understand that.

Hecate91It isn't necessary to change the CPU frequently, though ironically I see people with Core 200 plus CPU's getting excited for Nova Lake, that seems rather frequent to be replacing the CPU to me.
But X3D isn't just about having lower latency, it provides higher average FPS than non-X3D CPU's do. I don't do work on my gaming PC and I'm not a youtuber so I don't care about a few mins extra of encoding time. The funny thing is Intel users dismissed the usefulness of X3D cache, until Intel announced their own CPU's with a large L3 cache, which probably won't be a price/performance value but I'm sure the same people who complained about X3D being too expensive will be buying bLCC CPU's.

Because 8 core is too weak, the situation for zen6 will be much better, but 12 core is still slightly worse than 6+12.
Motherboards are cheap compared to the cpu and can be sold together with the cpu, which is not a key feature that should be prioritized for purchase at all.
Because the performance of the cpu itself is the most important. I can understand that 9800x3d has very good gaming performance and people value this a lot, so it can sustain its premium.
But compared to the oced 270k plus, gaming performance is not significantly better, and a 5-10% gaming performance difference is not enough to justify the MT disadvantage and price.

Hecate91AM5 launched in late 2022, so anyone who doesn't want to change their motherboard constantly can hang onto the same board to drop in Zen 6, being able to keep the same board for at least 4-5 years.
I don't care about the board, what I do care about is unnecessarily changing the board because Intel refuses to stick to a socket.

In 2022 am5 was expensive, and cpu performance was worse than intel. Overall, the price you paid for one amd motherboard and two cpus exceeded two intel cpus and two motherboards.
And you need to ensure that your motherboard vrm is sufficient to supply zen6 and that there is no loss of features compared to new motherboards, which was very difficult to determine in 2022.
You care about motherboards, no need to hide that. An am5 used motherboard you hold has little value, that is what you keep, while what is truly expensive is the cpu, you change frequently, buying high and selling low, paying a lot.