Monday, April 15th 2019

MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?

Greedy motherboard vendors such as MSI want you to buy a new motherboard every two generations of processor for no sound reason at all. MSI is reportedly blocking support for 3rd generation Ryzen "Matisse" processors on its AMD 300-series chipset motherboards, including those based on high-end AMD X370 and OC-capable B350 chipsets. This would also put those who own $300 motherboards such as the X370 XPower out of luck. To recap, AMD announced on numerous occasions that it doesn't want to be a greedy clique like its competitor, by forcing motherboard upgrades and promised that socket AM4 motherboards will be backwards and forwards compatible with at least four generations of Ryzen processors, running all the way up to 2020.

This normally should mean that any 300-series motherboard must support 4th generation Ryzen processors with a simple BIOS update. Most 300-series motherboards, including from MSI, even ship with USB BIOS Flashback feature to help with forwards compatibility. Unfortunately, motherboard companies such as MSI care more about their bottom-lines than the consumer. In a support e-mail to an X370 XPower Titanium owner, MSI confirmed that it will not extend Zen 2 support to AMD 300-series. Other motherboard vendors could follow MSI's suit as a representative of another motherboard vendor, on condition of anonymity, told TechPowerUp that "Zen 2" processors have steeper electrical requirements that 300-series motherboards don't meet. This is an excuse similar to the one Intel gave for the planned obsolescence of its 100-series and 200-series chipsets, even as it was repeatedly proven that those motherboards can run and overclock 9th generation processors with custom firmware just fine. Would MSI care to explain whether a B450M PRO-M2 has a stronger VRM than an X370 XPower Titanium to warrant "Zen 2" support? Will all "Zen 2" processor SKUs have steep electrical requirements? Will there not be any SKUs with double-digit-Watt TDP ratings?

Update (16/04): MSI posted a clarification on this issue. Source: master3553 (Reddit)
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335 Comments on MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?

#251
EarthDog
And from MSI themselves in my inbox...............

Posted on Reply
#252
lexluthermiester
EarthDog
And from MSI themselves in my inbox...............


LOL@"Activate Windows" ;)
Posted on Reply
#253
notb
EarthDog
And from MSI themselves in my inbox...............
So pretty much the same text we got on Reddit.
Verifying potential compatibility (I love the wording).
Testing.
A list of compatible mobos will be released later (suggesting: not every).

Tasty detail:
"Below is a full list of upcoming BIOS versions which include compatibility for the next-gen AMD APUs for our 300-Series and 400-Series AM4 motherboards"
:)
Posted on Reply
#254
EarthDog
notb
So pretty much the same text we got on Reddit.
Sure... just not in German, and official (first thing in the thread that was from a good source), not from a redditor. :D



zOMG..... "BETRAYALz"....... and "GREEDzzzz"
Posted on Reply
#255
champsilva
EarthDog
And from MSI themselves in my inbox...............


Can you click in the link and send us? Usually e-mails has an "external view"
Posted on Reply
#257
notb
EarthDog
Sure... just not in German, and official (first thing in the thread that was from a good source), not from a redditor. :D
What's wrong with German? Racist! :-D
zOMG..... "BETRAYALz"....... and "GREEDzzzz"
Now I'm really looking forward to the Zen2 launch and discussions on this forum. This is going to be sooo entertaining.

Just imagine all the threads about flashing motherboards with incompatible BIOS that supports Zen2. :-D
Posted on Reply
#258
R0H1T
Anything AMD is entertaining, in Dozer days it was like an inevitable train-wreck - these days it might just be the opposite!
Posted on Reply
#259
moproblems99
EarthDog
Sure... just not in German, and official (first thing in the thread that was from a good source), not from a redditor. :D



zOMG..... "BETRAYALz"....... and "GREEDzzzz"
Hey, all those pitch forks are sharpened and gas prices are climbing so those torches have some investments. I bet this won't end here.
Posted on Reply
#260
medi01
lexluthermiester
Except that you didn't quote the whole conversation
Let me try again:



Maybe Tom pulled this HALF A FREAKING PAGE excerpt out of context? Evil, EVIL TOM!
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/msi-ceo-interview-intel-shortage-amd,38473.html

What MSI's CEO did, is merely naive.
I couldn't blame small companies head for bending backwards for market Juggernaut.
From working with Intel on how to get Intel's share back from AMD, to not pissing intel off by releasing AMD notebooks.


But it shows how insanely f*cked up things are.

And mental gymnastics of some of the users here, to somehow twist it is hardly amusing.
Posted on Reply
#261
EarthDog
notb
What's wrong with German? Racist! :-D

Now I'm really looking forward to the Zen2 launch and discussions on this forum. This is going to be sooo entertaining.

Just imagine all the threads about flashing motherboards with incompatible BIOS that supports Zen2. :-D
I can't read/speak it. Achtung!

You all can cover the all the bios flashing and whining... surely someone will step up, call themselves a guru, and add it to their signature! Saved! :)
medi01
And mental gymnastics of some of the users here, to somehow twist it is hardly amusing.
Funny.. I was thinking the same thing. The incredible elastic brain!

Reminds me the PUBG where it was sworn up and down they found a cheater who killed them due to how they were interacting with the world. Another plausible explanation of those listed actions was suggested and it was poopooed. To this day, that user has not been banned (and it was over a month ago at this point). Point is, to me, looking at the big picture and ALL the reasons he mentioned, I don't believe there will be anything dubious to the actions. Again promotions, lower prices... all part of it. It's not like finding these CPUs is actually rare. I can go on any etailer and find them or Microcenter, Fry's, w/e. Why not offer lower pricing on something that now(when the shortage lessens) has more supply in the market? Isn't this how it works? I mean, I see what you are saying, but there is literally no smoking gun here to be so absolute (and showing great huberis). I think its open to a more broad interpretation.

Again, the notebooks argument is just.... its not an argument to me. He listed three reasons, but you hang your hat on one, seemingly dismissing the others while formulating your opinion.

Anyway, taking the blue pill on this one. Peace out. :):toast:
Posted on Reply
#262
lexluthermiester
medi01
And mental gymnastics of some of the users here, to somehow twist it is hardly amusing.
Perhaps, but we aren't the ones hurling insults, posting in a bold huge font(effectively screaming online) and generally acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum.
medi01
What MSI's CEO did, is merely naive.
I couldn't blame small companies head for bending backwards for market Juggernaut.
From working with Intel on how to get Intel's share back from AMD, to not pissing intel off by releasing AMD notebooks.
MSI is not a small company and they are not pandering to the whims of Intel. Again you seem to misunderstand what Chiang was saying(clearly tongue-in-cheek).
Posted on Reply
#263
medi01
lexluthermiester
MSI is not a small company and they are not pandering to the whims of Intel.
Stating THIS in THIS thread, then wondering, why someone posts in bold.

lexluthermiester
acting like a child
Of all comments, the most amazing mind-twist was that this was pulling words out of its context:


Semmelweis reflex, I guess.
Posted on Reply
#264
notb
medi01
(..)
How many more times are you going to post the same screenshot? What's wrong with you?
Posted on Reply
#265
lexluthermiester
notb
How many more times are you going to post the same screenshot? What's wrong with you?
It's supposed to be against forum rules, something about spamming..
Posted on Reply
#266
Arjai
Well, I have no way of recovering the time spent reading through the 11 pages of posts, in this thread.
However, I have to say, I have learned plenty about a few members here. I don't hold grudges, one has to earn that from me. ;)

What I found most interesting were these three quotes, and what I share with them...
mstenholm
Please stay out off this discussing.
newtekie1
Saw this coming back when AMD announced they'd "use" AM4 for at least 10 years. I said then, just because they were going to keep using the socket doesn't mean the old motherboards will support the new processors.
thebluebumblebee
It is so sad to see TPU going the way of Fake News. The fact that TPU no longer seems to understand the difference between a news post and an editorial is disappointing.

To think that MSI doesn't know the customer retention value of a "simple BIOS update".....(I'll get in trouble if I complete this sentence)
Upon what knowledge does the author assert that all it takes is a "simple BIOS update"?

Why does this matter? Because BS like this "news" leads to: (not picking on you @ZoneDymo )


For the record, I own one of those X370 XPower Titanium motherboards.
who knew a little blue badge was so calming?
:lovetpu:
Posted on Reply
#267
Valkrys
GG you took the word of a monkey at a desk. Waiting for you to link your follow up article to this one and mark it as updated. I appreciate the tenacity, but perhaps you should exercise some critical thought and perhaps ask around before posting stuff like this. The entire internet lit on fire over a single vendor potentially not abiding by AMD's guidelines. It's both good and bad... But kind of screams of "I couldn't be bothered." Your publication is widely accepted as being a reputable source, it would be good practice to not act like Gamer Meld. For the record I have refused to buy any MSI mobo since I dealt with the labyrinth that was their x58 pro-e bios. Their physical PCB design for 300 series boards didn't really help.
Posted on Reply
#268
moproblems99
Valkrys
Waiting for you to link your follow up article to this one and mark it as updated.
That actually happened well before you posted this. GG.
Posted on Reply
#270
thebluebumblebee
Arjai
who knew a little blue badge was so calming?
As long as you don't mind the BOHICA with every other CPU generation, whether it's needed or not. How many chipsets did Intel have for DDR3? (30,40,50,60,70,80,90)
Posted on Reply
#271
TechCat
Mussels
How is something in writing from the company itself, rumour?
There is no copy of the question asked nor the actual response. Just a statement of non compatibility which you blame on AMD failing to keep their promise. Pretty sure its a BIOS issue, which I think is dawning on you.
Posted on Reply
#272
londiste
thebluebumblebee
As long as you don't mind the BOHICA with every other CPU generation, whether it's needed or not. How many chipsets did Intel have for DDR3? (30,40,50,60,70,80,90)
I wonder why not look at DDR4 chipsets?
Intel has had 3 since 2015 - 100/200/300.
AMD has had 2 since 2017 - 300/400.
Posted on Reply
#273
R0H1T
Technically they're more than 3, Intel has at least 3 chipsets per gen of core - I don't recall the last one because I stopped counting after z390. AMD has the same atm but Intel also changed sockets thrice(?) in this time IIRC.
Posted on Reply
#274
londiste
R0H1T
Technically they're more than 3, Intel has at least 3 chipsets per gen of core - I don't recall the last one because I stopped counting after z390. AMD has the same atm but Intel also changed sockets thrice(?) in this time IIRC.
What time?

Intel:
DDR3:
- 2007-2008: LGA775 (30/40 series), Core2Duo/Quad - Technically DDR3 but most boards were DDR2
- 2009-2010: s1156 (50 series), Nehalem
- 2011-2012: s1155 (60/70 series), Sandy/Ivy Bridge
- 2013-2014: s1150 (80/90 series), Haswell/Haswell Refresh/Broadwell
DDR4:
- 2015-2016: s1151 (100/200 series), Skylake/Kaby Lake
- 2017-2018: s1151v2 (300 series), Coffee Lake/Coffee Lake Refresh

AMD:
DDR3:
- 2007-2008: AM2/AM2+/AM3 (600/700 series) - DDR2/DDR3, based on socket
- 2010-2011: AM3/AM3+ (800/900 series)
DDR4:
- 2017-2018: AM4 (300/400 series)

AMD practically was not competing for about 5 years there.
Posted on Reply
#275
Chloe Price
londiste
What time?

Intel:
DDR3:
- 2007-2008: LGA775 (30/40 series), Core2Duo/Quad - Technically DDR3 but most boards were DDR2
- 2009-2010: s1156 (50 series), Nehalem
- 2011-2012: s1155 (60/70 series), Sandy/Ivy Bridge
- 2013-2014: s1150 (80/90 series), Haswell/Haswell Refresh/Broadwell
DDR4:
- 2015-2016: s1151 (100/200 series), Skylake/Kaby Lake
- 2017-2018: s1151v2 (300 series), Coffee Lake/Coffee Lake Refresh

AMD:
DDR3:
- 2007-2008: AM2/AM2+/AM3 (600/700 series) - DDR2/DDR3, based on socket
- 2010-2011: AM3/AM3+ (800/900 series)
DDR4:
- 2017-2018: AM4 (300/400 series)

AMD practically was not competing for about 5 years there.
Whey they should have made new chipsets, since they didn't make any new CPUs? They had the FX lineup as the top series from 2012 to 2017..
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