Monday, January 27th 2020

Intel 400-series Chipset Motherboards to Lack PCIe Gen 4.0, Launch Pushed to Q2

Intel's upcoming 400-series desktop chipset will lack support for PCI-Express gen 4.0. The motherboards will stick to gen 3.0 for both the main x16 PEG slots wired to the LGA1200 socket, and general purpose PCIe lanes from the PCH, according to a Tom's Hardware report. It was earlier expected that 400-series chipset motherboards will come with preparation for PCIe gen 4.0, so even if the upcoming 10th gen "Comet Lake" desktop processors lacked gen 4.0 root-complexes, the boards would be fully ready for the new bus standard in 11th gen "Rocket Lake" desktop processors.

10th gen "Comet Lake" desktop processors are built on 14 nm process, and implement Intel's current-gen CPU core design Intel has been implementing since 6th gen "Skylake." It's only with 11th gen "Rocket Lake" that the mainstream desktop platform could see a new CPU core design, with the company reportedly back-porting "Willow Cove" CPU cores to the 14 nm process. "Rocket Lake" is also expected to feature a small Gen12 iGPU with 32 execution units, and a new-gen uncore component that implements PCIe gen 4.0. PCIe gen 4.0 doubles bandwidth over gen 3.0, and while only a handful GPUs support it, the standard is made popular by a new generation of M.2 NVMe SSDs that are able to utilize the added bandwidth to push sequential transfer rates beyond M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 limitations.
It is also being reported that Intel has delayed the launch of 10th gen Core desktop processors and 400-series chipset motherboards to Q2-2020, to as early as April. Motherboards based on Intel 400-series chipset were the most notable absentees at the 2020 International CES, and it's rumored that a last-minute decision to delay the platform's launch caused exhibitors to box up their Z490 chipset motherboards. With an April launch, "Comet Lake" will lead Intel's mainstream desktop product line for at least three quarters. Intel is expected to debut 11th gen "Rocket Lake" in the 2021 CES, unless something changes then. Source: Tom's Hardware
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54 Comments on Intel 400-series Chipset Motherboards to Lack PCIe Gen 4.0, Launch Pushed to Q2

#1
DeathtoGnomes
maybe they're waiting for pci5? :shadedshu: :D :rolleyes:

or for that magical number: 7nm?

nahhhh
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#2
ratirt
I thought the new Intel motherboards were supposed to have PCI-e 5.0 and now it seems they are not getting 4.0 either.
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#3
ppn
Z490 motherboards have pcie4, cpus not until the "Willow Cove" backport to 14nm.

Socket 1700 will have it all. This 1200 socket is more like entry level.
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#4
ratirt
ppn
Z490 motherboards have pcie4, cpus not until the "Willow Cove" backport to 14nm.

Socket 1700 will have it all. This 1200 socket is more like entry level.
Are you sure about this, z490 boards have the 4.0? 'cause I think they don't. The willow cove and 1700 socket will be a new board (new chipset probably as well) so it might be that Intel adds PCIe 4.0.
Besides, what's the point for adding PCIe 4.0 when Comet Lake uses 3.0 only? you won't get willow cove on that same socket because that will change. (no shock there) so, what would be the point to add PCIe 4.0, boost price of the board with a feature that can't be used by CPUs you slap on it?
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#5
JAB Creations
This is the danger of mindshare: when you can buy something literally twice as good for a fifth of the price and instead people keep buying garbage. I hope AMD's lead remains strong enough to overcome the psychological damage caused by Intel's crony tactics.
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#6
hat
Enthusiast
Entry level? That's ridiculous. There's already a mainstream and a HEDT platform...

Anyway, I'm fine with Willow Cove being backported to 14nm. Intel has proven that their 14nm++++++++(++++++++)+^9999 process can compete with AMD's design on TSMC's 7nm. As long as it performs better than its predecessor and doesn't have a mountain of security flaws, it should be a success.

JAB Creations
This is the danger of mindshare: when you can buy something literally twice as good for a fifth of the price and instead people keep buying garbage. I hope AMD's lead remains strong enough to overcome the psychological damage caused by Intel's crony tactics.
I think "twice as good for a fifth of the price" is a bit of a reach, but for sure, AMD has made leaps and bounds of progress. We're at a stage now where one doesn't conclusively beat the other.
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#7
repman244
They are saving it for a new socket haha, good job Intel.
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#8
VrOtk
That was obvious. Knowing they are still using Sky Lake and planning to back port 10nm architectures to 14nm first: should not be a surprise for anyone.
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#9
goodeedidid
I don't get it as PCI-e 4 is so new and now people are talking going to PCI-e 5. Makes no sense to me.
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#10
bubbleawsome
goodeedidid
I don't get it as PCI-e 4 is so new and now people are talking going to PCI-e 5. Makes no sense to me.
4 was always kind of an in-between with 5.0 being finalized less than two years after 4.0. Seems like the underlying tech isn't super different either, as 5.0 controllers were demo'd a few months back.
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#11
dont whant to set it"'
And surprise-surprise sayd mb's will cost as much if not more than curent Pcie 4.0 ones? Clasic Intel.
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#12
Super XP
There's absolutely no reason to buy a Intel processor when we have far superior AMD ZEN 2 CPUs and soon to come ZEN 3 this year. When building PCs for people upon request, I would feel guilty even suggesting anything with an Intel logo on it. It's simply not going to happening. Can't count how many happy ZEN 1 & ZEN 2 owners I've made.
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#13
enxo218
it fell in one of intel's lakes but can't tell which tho hence the delay
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#14
TheGuruStud
enxo218
it fell in one of intel's lakes but can't tell which tho hence the delay
I thought it was a salt bed by now.
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#15
birdie
Now on to the serious question: how many people out there really need PCI-E 4.0 speeds/performance? 0.1%? 0.2%?

Why isn't anyone in this topic talking about the fact that AMD has botched PCIe4 implementation in Ryzen 3000 desktop CPUs that why their upcoming APUs based on Zen 2 will not feature PCIe4 support?

What's wrong about it, you'll ask? Well, your X570 chipset idles at 10W while doing nothing and your Ryzen 3000 CPU has the minimum power consumption around 17 freaking watts due to to its IO PCIe4 core which is seemingly unable to ever enter idle mode.

That's 27W while doing pretty much nothing.

What if Intel saw it through and decided to postpone adding PCIe4 support in their products?

And let's talk about products utilizing PCIe4 at the moment. AMD Navi GPUs despite featuring this interface gain 0% of performance due to using it.

M.2 NVMe SSDs get twice as fast however from what I've seen all of them require massive heatsinks and dissipate enormous amounts of heat. And how often do you need to write/read data at speeds above 5 freaking gigabytes per second?

I'm not opposing progress - I'm all for it. However progress doesn't mean just performance - it also means responsibility.

I do understand that bashing Intel nowadays is a trend most people cannot resist to. It would be great however if the bashing was warranted and not a repetition of something we've heard ten thousands times already. Yes, it's still a SkyLake core, yes, no 10/7nm products in volume yet, yet, no PCIe4 yet. Let's move on.
Posted on Reply
#16
repman244
birdie
Now on to the serious question: how many people out there really need PCI-E 4.0 speeds/performance? 0.1%? 0.2%?

Why isn't anyone in this topic talking about the fact that AMD has botched PCIe4 implementation in Ryzen 3000 desktop CPUs that why their upcoming APUs based on Zen 2 will not feature PCIe4 support?

What's wrong about it, you'll ask? Well, your X570 chipset idles at 10W while doing nothing and your Ryzen 3000 CPU has the minimum power consumption around 17 freaking watts due to to its IO PCIe4 core which is seemingly unable to ever enter idle mode.

That's 27W while doing pretty much nothing.

What if Intel saw it through and decided to postpone adding PCIe4 support in their products?

And let's talk about products utilizing PCIe4 at the moment. AMD Navi GPUs despite featuring this interface gain 0% of performance due to using it.

M.2 NVMe SSDs get twice as fast however from what I've seen all of them require massive heatsinks and dissipate enormous amounts of heat. And how often do you need to write/read data at speeds above 5 freaking gigabytes per second?

I'm not opposing progress - I'm all for it. However progress doesn't mean just performance - it also means responsibility.

I do understand that bashing Intel nowadays is a trend most people cannot resist to. It would be great however if the bashing was warranted and not a repetition of something we've heard ten thousands times already. Yes, it's still a SkyLake core, yes, no 10/7nm products in volume yet, yet, no PCIe4 yet. Let's move on.
You have to start somewhere, even if it's not required at the moment for most users it will be in the future.
Or do you still use AGP, ISA and PCI slots?
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#17
Red_Machine
Delayed? I already have one. I've had it for several years. It's got a Pentium II in it.
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#18
Dave65
Poor Intel, just can't seem to catch a break:roll:
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#19
birdie
repman244
You have to start somewhere, even if it's not required at the moment for most users it will be in the future.
Or do you still use AGP, ISA and PCI slots?
I have a perfectly working PC from 2011 with a Sandy Bridge CPU and I won't throw it out just because it's missing M.2 ports or PCIe4. Again you disagreed only to disagree without addressing the borked implementation from AMD and the fact that maybe Intel shouldn't release equally broken products.

Future proofing makes sense only when you know exactly how it will benefit you in the future. PCIe4 does not have anything to it aside from increased IO throughput which is necessary for all the ten people in the entire world who depend on it.

Speaking of the ports you mentioned. PCI and PCI-E have enormous advantages over ISA and AGP that's why they were more or less completely replaced and abandoned by the industry. PCIe4 over PCIe3 again brings very little if anything for 99.99% of people out there. Most people in the world don't have M.2 NVMe drives at all and couldn't care less about the performance of their disks.

If you wanted to just say AMD is great and Intel is bad - I get it. If you have some deeper insight, please let me know.
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#20
Super XP
Your claim about AMD's PCIe4 is broken is nonsense and misinformation.
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#21
hapkiman
Most could care less about PCIe 4.0. Maybe 1% of user out there are impatiently waiting for it. Everyone else....eh not so much.
Posted on Reply
#22
Tomorrow
birdie
Why isn't anyone in this topic talking about the fact that AMD has botched PCIe4 implementation in Ryzen 3000 desktop CPUs that why their upcoming APUs based on Zen 2 will not feature PCIe4 support?
Why do you think there is any need for Gen4 on laptops? What are you going to plug into to those? It's not like there are open PCI-E ports. Not all laptops even have a spare M.2 slot.
birdie
What's wrong about it, you'll ask? Well, your X570 chipset idles at 10W while doing nothing and your Ryzen 3000 CPU has the minimum power consumption around 17 freaking watts due to to its IO PCIe4 core which is seemingly unable to ever enter idle mode.
Who cares about minimum power consumption at desktop? Does not really matter if it's 1,7W, 7W or 27W. Desktops are not running off battery. There is better cooling, more space etc.
birdie
What if Intel saw it through and decided to postpone adding PCIe4 support in their products?
Yeah right.
birdie
And let's talk about products utilizing PCIe4 at the moment. AMD Navi GPUs despite featuring this interface gain 0% of performance due to using it.
4GB 5500XT actually does benefit from it. Also RDNA 2.0 and Nvidia 3000 series will likely use Gen4 this year. I take it this way - if it does no hurt performance then why not include it?
birdie
M.2 NVMe SSDs get twice as fast however from what I've seen all of them require massive heatsinks and dissipate enormous amounts of heat. And how often do you need to write/read data at speeds above 5 freaking gigabytes per second?
That's on controller manufacturers to do proper controller that don't get so hot. Besides M.2 getting hot has nothing to do with Gen4. Remember why Samsung had to include a copper sheet on their Gen3 drives? Yep that's why.
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#23
Steevo
Intel. Let's rebrand it and they will love it!!!

I wonder how people justify their "upgrade" in their mind when they do shit like this.
Posted on Reply
#24
wahdangun
birdie
Now on to the serious question: how many people out there really need PCI-E 4.0 speeds/performance? 0.1%? 0.2%?

Why isn't anyone in this topic talking about the fact that AMD has botched PCIe4 implementation in Ryzen 3000 desktop CPUs that why their upcoming APUs based on Zen 2 will not feature PCIe4 support?

What's wrong about it, you'll ask? Well, your X570 chipset idles at 10W while doing nothing and your Ryzen 3000 CPU has the minimum power consumption around 17 freaking watts due to to its IO PCIe4 core which is seemingly unable to ever enter idle mode.

That's 27W while doing pretty much nothing.

What if Intel saw it through and decided to postpone adding PCIe4 support in their products?

And let's talk about products utilizing PCIe4 at the moment. AMD Navi GPUs despite featuring this interface gain 0% of performance due to using it.

M.2 NVMe SSDs get twice as fast however from what I've seen all of them require massive heatsinks and dissipate enormous amounts of heat. And how often do you need to write/read data at speeds above 5 freaking gigabytes per second?

I'm not opposing progress - I'm all for it. However progress doesn't mean just performance - it also means responsibility.

I do understand that bashing Intel nowadays is a trend most people cannot resist to. It would be great however if the bashing was warranted and not a repetition of something we've heard ten thousands times already. Yes, it's still a SkyLake core, yes, no 10/7nm products in volume yet, yet, no PCIe4 yet. Let's move on.
isn't that kind of ironic you complain about 27Watt idle while this comet lake will have 300 watt power consumption ? and x570 can have 3 full speed nvme while this platform without PCi4 will bottleneck even one nvme.
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#25
gamefoo21
Guess it is a chipset issue and not a processor side issue.

Doesn't make sense that Intel would nerf the boards. Unless it's pure marketing but that doesn't make a ton of sense but they did artificially limit Optane support for quite awhile.

So Intel pride maybe? Making boards 3.0 only does lower manufacturing costs.
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