Tuesday, September 5th 2017
Intel Skylake-X HCC CPU Delidded by Der8auer, also not Soldered
Overclocking poster-boy Der8auer has seemingly gotten his hands on some early samples of Intel's Skylake-X high core count (HCC)HEDT CPUs. The upcoming 12 to 18-core enthusiast-class CPUs are being launched on the same X299 platform on socket LGA 2066 that Intel has already launched 4 (Kaby Lake-X), 6, 8 and 10-core parts already, and are supposed to bring Intel towards a level playing field - and then some - with competitor AMD's Threadripper CPUs, which boast of up to 16 cores.
From this delidding process with Der8auer's own delidding tool, Delid-Die-Mate-X, seems to result a die that is much larger - as expected - than Intel's 10-core i9-7900X. At the same time, it seems that Intel is still opting, again, for not soldering its enthusiast-targeted CPUs, which would result in better temperatures and, potentially, overclocking potential. The fact that Der8auer managed to delid the i9-7920X and didn't recommend against doing it likely means that there is minimal risk of damaging your CPU while subjecting it to this process. This is something the renowned overclocker did do when he recommended that users shouldn't delid their Ryzen or Threadripper CPUs looking for better temperatures, since the fact that these were soldered would likely result in both catastrophic damage and a much diminished chance of operating temperatures improvement through the application of special purpose thermal compounds. The Facebook post from Der8auer with the delidded 7920X likely serves as an appetizer for an upcoming delid video on YouTube, as has been the overclocker's MO.
Sources:
Der8auer's Facebook, via Overclock 3D
From this delidding process with Der8auer's own delidding tool, Delid-Die-Mate-X, seems to result a die that is much larger - as expected - than Intel's 10-core i9-7900X. At the same time, it seems that Intel is still opting, again, for not soldering its enthusiast-targeted CPUs, which would result in better temperatures and, potentially, overclocking potential. The fact that Der8auer managed to delid the i9-7920X and didn't recommend against doing it likely means that there is minimal risk of damaging your CPU while subjecting it to this process. This is something the renowned overclocker did do when he recommended that users shouldn't delid their Ryzen or Threadripper CPUs looking for better temperatures, since the fact that these were soldered would likely result in both catastrophic damage and a much diminished chance of operating temperatures improvement through the application of special purpose thermal compounds. The Facebook post from Der8auer with the delidded 7920X likely serves as an appetizer for an upcoming delid video on YouTube, as has been the overclocker's MO.
171 Comments on Intel Skylake-X HCC CPU Delidded by Der8auer, also not Soldered
And Ryzen, how cool does that run with a couple hundred mhz OC? (if you call it one)
All I see is angry feet stomping without substance. Put similar TDP soldered and TIM CPUs side by side and amaze yourself, then come back to continue the complaint. Or dont. Comparing a delid + high quality paste/TIM replacements to a factory stock product is not being realistic, but yet, that is somehow the metric used for this discussion. Its weird to say the least. The only reason we do this, is because you simply CANT delid a Ryzen to see what headroom you can create on that chip in the first place. Think on that for abit.
To circle back to 'optimal'... how is a delid with replacement tim and voiding your warranty anywhere close to optimal? How is not being able to do this on a Ryzen die optimal?
I mean, yeah, intel would be smart to put solder on it for that 1% who gives a hoot about overclocking every last Mhz out of the CPU. Again, no solder 1.2 GHz overclock. Solder 400 Mhz. Is the TIM really the concern here??????? Really? Why arent we razing AMD's head for having literally ZERO overclocking headroom past boost/XFR.......... was it mentioned before they use solder? What good for the goose isn't good for the gander? That isn't how the saying goes. :)
Having two layers of TIM is not optimal for heat transfer , nothing beats direct contact through solder. This is a basic idea , no need for elaborate explanations.But what results , does a delided 7900X run hotter ? Is the TIM better ? Did I miss anything ?
I gonna put this into the most simply way imaginable , if you have the choice between 2 CPUs , one solderd and one that is using TIM , which one will you take ?
Now let's grab some numbers to make this discussion a bit more concrete
www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/780791-Ryzen-7-overclocking-Voltage-to-Temp-statistic
Ryzen 1700 4.0Ghz 1.45 70 Asus pro prime Dave
Ryzen 1700 3.7Ghz 1.35 85 B350 gaming 3 Spawn
Ryzen 1700 3.8Ghz 1.375 in BIOS 63.5 ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero MNMadman
Ryzen 1700 4.0Ghz 1.375 72 asus x370 prime sakul
Ryzen 1700 3.8Ghz 1.287 72 biostar x370 gt7 gg
Ryzen 1700X 3.9Ghz 1.37 83 MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon Lee
Ryzen 1700 3.8Ghz 1.395 78 Asus Prime X370-PRO deload
Ryzen 1700 3.9Ghz 1.3 63 Asrock fat4l1ty k4 Goober
Ryzen 1700 3.8Ghz 1.35 62 asrock x370 taichi NB
Ryzen 1700X 3.9Ghz 1.375 65 Crosshair VI TheWiredSoul
Ryzen 1800X 3.8Ghz 1.3375v 35 ASUS X370-PRO Kim
Seeing an awful lot of temps closing on 80 C here, for meager OCs. Note: they ain't pulling 300w either.
Clearly I would take the soldered CPU. However, when put in context, it's a different story. ;)
(daily usage is lower since it left my tender care, but it definitely ran fast and COLD, as long as the fan speed was up)
yeah guys, soldered is good. Intel is good. We just want them together, like they used to be before the breakup.
I mean, with my 'not optimal TIM', which he is right, I am overclocking from base clocks to a much higher percentage than a CPU with solder..... oh, and that uses less power. So, my faster by clockspeed/overclocking, more power hungry chip has a problem with TIM.
Gotcha. It is clear as day now. :)
Now, again, we can stomp our feet for ages, if you really think a giant like Intel will adapt its process to the wants of a few Youtubers and wannabe-enthusiasts, of which the vast majority will never buy said product, you're seriously deluded. We see cost-effective choices being made ALL over EVERY marketplace in the world, and yes, companies always try to get the most out of a dollar, this is exactly what Intel is doing here.
The ONLY fathomable way Intel will be going back to solder is when AMD releases Ryzen 2 with OC headroom to 5 Ghz on a soldered CPU, and on top of that, sells so many of them that it causes Intel to bleed more money than they do by altering their process.
Reality. ^
I think we should take the blinders off and look around a bit at the big picture, both with results you have seen from trustworthy sources (putting my hat in there... I hope that is OK), as well as just seeing where AMD CPUs top out and where Intel's top out.
Who wouldn't love a couple hundred more Mhz (at most) with moving to solder? I get that. But we are shunning the fact that even it's 'not optimal TIM' is still leapfrogging the competition.
By comparison, if you ran a soldered FX at 5 Ghz, you'd have moved to an Intel alternative two years ago at least.
Again, could-woulda-shoulda, versus reality - this is always the case with any AMD versus Intel discussion: dreams of a better future versus the actual market. Note that the dreamers are not successful here.
4.2 GHz 1.125V / 67C / 243W
4.3 GHz 1.125V / 70C / 254W
4.4 GHz 1.175V / 77C / 272W
4.5 GHz 1.250V / 88C / 309W
4.6 GHz 1.325V / 95C / 345W
Now, if you are trying to put a cooler not meant to cool 300W loads, it can count. But you aren't getting 500 Mhz out of 10C temp difference.
Like listen; I did offer to get a de-lidder from der8uaer, pop the top off of ALL my CPUs, and happily verify his results. Unfortunately, I didn't get one, and they aren't really for sale (always sold out, or perhaps, not even being made in the first place). So whatever...
Like you also have to consider this: Here is a guy that sells a product to delid CPUs, telling you that you are being ripped off, and that you should delid. Oh and hey, buy HIS delidder to do it, too. :wtf:
It's bloody marketing for his products and everyone is taking it as gospel. FFS, I got to quit doing reviews.
You all best send your applications into W1zz for my job here on TPU; and no, not joking at all.
:toast:
This whole "TIM" issue is just nonsense. Of all the "issues" with X299, this would have to be a total non-issue. How many are going to do overlocking at this extreme level?
This is even more ridiculous than people boycotting X299 because of "missing" PCIe lanes they don't even need.So, is this really a problem for you? These things still clocks way beyond anything from AMD.
Like, I get hardware for free, yet still buy my favorite items because I want a warranty. I'm not the one disillusioned by hype. Everyone can really think what they want, but it's really not even worth my time to do reviews if people are so easily influenced by BS. Like why bother? Everyone will lthink whatever suits them, and they have every right to.. so who am I to try to correct anyone?Will you tell me what to write too? Whisper sweet nothings into my ear, deary....