Saturday, January 8th 2022

Two AMD Ryzen 7000 Series Processors Based on Zen 4 Core Appear: 16-Core and 8-Core SKUs

AMD's Ryzen 7000 series of desktop processors based on the novel Zen 4 core architecture are scheduled to arrive in the second half of 2022. While we are not sure just how big the architectural differences will be going from Zen 3 (with or without 3D V-cache) to the new Zen 4 core, we have some leaked information that confirms the existence of two SKUs that reveal additional details about the processor configuration. In the MilkyWay@Home project, aiming to create a model of the Milky Way galaxy by utilizing countless PCs across the globe, we found two next-generation Ryzen 7000 SKUs. The MilkyWay@Home project isn't a benchmark. However, it is a valuable reference where the next generation processors appeared.

First in line is the 100-000000666-21_N CPU, a codename for an eight-core, sixteen-threaded design. This model should correspond to the AMD Ryzen 7 7800X CPU, a successor to the Ryzen 7 5800X model. Next in line is the 100-000000665-21_N CPU with 16 cores and 32 threads, a successor to the Ryzen 9 5950X named Ryzen 9 7950X. One important thing to note is that these new CPUs feature different level two (L2) cache configurations. With the previous generation 5000 series "Vermeer" processors, the L2 cache was locked at 512 KB per core. However, according to today's leak, the upgraded Zen 4 IP will bring 1024 KB of L2 cache per core, doubling the cache size at one of the fastest levels.
Sources: BenchLeaks, via Tom's Hardware
Add your own comment

32 Comments on Two AMD Ryzen 7000 Series Processors Based on Zen 4 Core Appear: 16-Core and 8-Core SKUs

#1
ratirt
Maybe there will be 2 different 7000 series with 3Dcache and without? Or the highest model will have the 3Dcache and the lower tier don't? Or all will not have at the release and AMD will boost the performance later on next year or so.
Guess we will have to wait and find out. Either way looking forward if AMD has some serious brass in its pockets with the 7000 series CPUs.

Doubling the cache mem would boost things up a notch.
Posted on Reply
#2
The Quim Reaper
ratirtMaybe there will be 2 different 7000 series with 3Dcache and without?
I doubt 3D cache will even make it to the 7000 series.

The fact its only being released on the gaming focused 5800X, suggests its something that AMD is only doing to overtake(?) the 12600K, 12700K & 12900K in gaming benchmarks, until they're ready to launch the new 7000 series in Q3 or Q4.

AMD will not like Intel being able to say they have the fastest gaming CPU in their marketing for most of 2022...It just gives them a free pass to gain market share, if the 3D cache 5800X can match (or beat) Alder Lake for gaming, 3D cache will have served its purpose.
Posted on Reply
#3
stimpy88
AMD said that there would be a performance (and probable thermal) penalty for having two CCDs with 3D cache, and that's why they are only bringing out the lowly (gamers only) sku.

So it would make sense that AMD do not use it for Zen4, it's expensive, hot/inefficient, and difficult to get linear scaling across multiple CCDs.

More cache in general on the 5nm process would be the superior solution.
Posted on Reply
#4
TranceHead
The Quim ReaperI doubt 3D cache will even make it to the 7000 series.

The fact its only being released on the gaming focused 5800X, suggests its something that AMD is only doing to overtake(?) the 12600K, 12700K & 12900K in gaming benchmarks, until they're ready to launch the new 7000 series in Q3 or Q4.

AMD will not like Intel being able to say they have the fastest gaming CPU in their marketing for most of 2022...It just gives them a free pass to gain market share, if the 3D cache 5800X can match (or beat) Alder Lake for gaming, 3D cache will have served its purpose.
I think 3d cache will be on all 7000 APU's, it offers immediate tried and true advantage.
Posted on Reply
#5
Mats
TranceHeadI think 3d cache will be on all 7000 APU's, it offers immediate tried and true advantage.
I'm guessing it's way too expensive.

The advantage is there, but from what I've heard it's mostly high end gaming, and if gaming performance is CPU limited.

Only a small amount of systems will end up like that, and all the mid range gaming machines, boring home and office machines won't benefit from it.
Posted on Reply
#6
ratirt
stimpy88AMD said that there would be a performance (and probable thermal) penalty for having two CCDs with 3D cache, and that's why they are only bringing out the lowly (gamers only) sku.

So it would make sense that AMD do not use it for Zen4, it's expensive, hot/inefficient, and difficult to get linear scaling across multiple CCDs.

More cache in general on the 5nm process would be the superior solution.
hot and inefficient? It is not out yet and people already know how it will work and what it offers? difficult to get linear scaling?
Can I ask where are you getting this stuff from?
The Quim ReaperI doubt 3D cache will even make it to the 7000 series.

The fact its only being released on the gaming focused 5800X, suggests its something that AMD is only doing to overtake(?) the 12600K, 12700K & 12900K in gaming benchmarks, until they're ready to launch the new 7000 series in Q3 or Q4.

AMD will not like Intel being able to say they have the fastest gaming CPU in their marketing for most of 2022...It just gives them a free pass to gain market share, if the 3D cache 5800X can match (or beat) Alder Lake for gaming, 3D cache will have served its purpose.
Really? 3Dcache has done its part? It is not even out yet. Since when 5800x is a gaming focused CPU?
Intel, Alder Lake has matched AMD in performance and core count. The Big.Little has done it's part. Move to 4core set up now. Thank you
Do you realize how silly you sound now?
Posted on Reply
#7
Daven
IIRC, Milan-X places eight 3d cache chips on top of all eight chiplets for a total of 512 MB of stacked cache.

I don’t think power or price is the main issue. I believe AMD is allocating 90%+ of production to the Epyc lines.
Posted on Reply
#8
Mats
DavenIIRC, Milan-X places eight 3d cache chips on top of all eight chiplets for a total of 512 MB of stacked cache.

I don’t think power or price is the main issue. I believe AMD is allocating 90%+ of production to the Epyc lines.
Milan-X doesn't have to stay price competitive like desktop/mobile chips.
Posted on Reply
#9
Daven
MatsMilan-X doesn't have to stay price competitive like desktop/mobile chips.
Regular desktop chips have been priced upwards of $1000 and AMD has shown they are willing to adjust clock frequencies to stay within certain power envelopes.

So I guess what I’m saying is there are no technological or pricing hurdles to offer a two chiplet 3d cache solution. The problem is most likely production allocation which no manufacturer likes to admit too. There just isn’t enough 3d cache chips for the desktop given the much higher priority and more lucrative enterprise market that Milan-X serves. Plus these cache chips are made using TSMC N7 node which is super constrained at the moment.

If this is indeed the case, then future Zen 4 chips can have 3d cache on one or more chiplets should manufacturing constraints ease.
Posted on Reply
#10
HD64G
3D cache is here to stay. No way AMD would get through all this fuss just to use it in the single and last CPU model for AM4 and not use it from Zen4 and on. Think again on a corporate financial level and the R& D costs of that tech. They might decide that the lower priced Zen4 models won't get it but the more expensive ones will almost surely get it.
Posted on Reply
#11
ExcuseMeWtf
If availability will be like current Ryzens, then... yaaaaawn.
Posted on Reply
#12
Wirko
HD64G3D cache is here to stay. No way AMD would get through all this fuss just to use it in the single and last CPU model for AM4 and not use it from Zen4 and on. Think again on a corporate financial level and the R& D costs of that tech. They might decide that the lower priced Zen4 models won't get it but the more expensive ones will almost surely get it.
Exactly. There will be some Epyc chips, some TR chips, and an occasional Ryzen with 3D cache. Special-purpose Epycs exist now, like the 72F3 with 8 chiplets, 256 MB cache, and only 8 cores. How does that make sense? Sometimes they are the best choice for running horribly expensive server applications licensed per core. 3D Zen4 server products are probably destined to fill niches like this very well (and these are niches where no price is too high).
Posted on Reply
#13
DeathtoGnomes
The Quim ReaperI doubt 3D cache will even make it to the 7000 series.

The fact its only being released on the gaming focused 5800X, suggests its something that AMD is only doing to overtake(?) the 12600K, 12700K & 12900K in gaming benchmarks, until they're ready to launch the new 7000 series in Q3 or Q4.

AMD will not like Intel being able to say they have the fastest gaming CPU in their marketing for most of 2022...It just gives them a free pass to gain market share, if the 3D cache 5800X can match (or beat) Alder Lake for gaming, 3D cache will have served its purpose.
I want what you're smoking, its like you have a crystal ball! IDk if you've noticed but AMD and Intel dont release cpus at the same time, so we'll always see some back and forth when it comes to the speed crown.
Posted on Reply
#14
Kohl Baas
WirkoExactly. There will be some Epyc chips, some TR chips, and an occasional Ryzen with 3D cache. Special-purpose Epycs exist now, like the 72F3 with 8 chiplets, 256 MB cache, and only 8 cores. How does that make sense? Sometimes they are the best choice for running horribly expensive server applications licensed per core. 3D Zen4 server products are probably destined to fill niches like this very well (and these are niches where no price is too high).
It will be there for the CS:GO players waiting their 1kHz monitors. :D
Posted on Reply
#15
efikkan
WirkoExactly. There will be some Epyc chips, some TR chips, and an occasional Ryzen with 3D cache. Special-purpose Epycs exist now, like the 72F3 with 8 chiplets, 256 MB cache, and only 8 cores. How does that make sense? Sometimes they are the best choice for running horribly expensive server applications licensed per core. 3D Zen4 server products are probably destined to fill niches like this very well (and these are niches where no price is too high).
It may not make much sense for most workloads, but it may matter a whole lot for very specific ones.
When it comes to server workloads, licensing costs may of course matter, but this probably have more to do with some edge cases where they expect some significant performance gains. While in general cases such an increase in L3 cache may yield ~2-15% extra performance, this is irrelevant as servers are usually built with a very specific purpose in mind. It's quite possible that some edge cases may receive 2-3x performance improvements from this. You'll be surprised of how many companies relies on some business-critical custom software, developed by overpaid consultants, resulting in some horribly bloated Java code. L3 is a spillover cache from L2, and contain recently evicted L2 caches, and chances are that it will be mostly instruction cache lines that get a hit here. So increased L3 will mostly help cache misses in code, which is associated with very bloated code.

I actually like the approach of modular CPU features, and I hope this technology gets to a point where the cores themselves can be extended with another layer on top.
Kohl BaasIt will be there for the CS:GO players waiting their 1kHz monitors. :D
Heh ;)

For all of those who think chopping off 1-2 ms at the end of the latency chain matters, especially for a game with a real tick rate of 30 Hz (120 Hz interpolated locally). :P
Posted on Reply
#16
Oberon
The Quim ReaperI doubt 3D cache will even make it to the 7000 series.

The fact its only being released on the gaming focused 5800X, suggests its something that AMD is only doing to overtake(?) the 12600K, 12700K & 12900K in gaming benchmarks, until they're ready to launch the new 7000 series in Q3 or Q4.

AMD will not like Intel being able to say they have the fastest gaming CPU in their marketing for most of 2022...It just gives them a free pass to gain market share, if the 3D cache 5800X can match (or beat) Alder Lake for gaming, 3D cache will have served its purpose.
It's only on one consumer desktop SKU because they want the good press of overtaking ADL in gaming, yes, but it has already been shipping in Milan-X for quite a while now. It will be continued part of their product stack with Zen 4, but I don't think it will be ubiquitous.
Posted on Reply
#17
Jism
HD64G3D cache is here to stay. No way AMD would get through all this fuss just to use it in the single and last CPU model for AM4 and not use it from Zen4 and on. Think again on a corporate financial level and the R& D costs of that tech. They might decide that the lower priced Zen4 models won't get it but the more expensive ones will almost surely get it.
Afterall, Ryzen's are just disqualified "Epyc's" or "Threadrippers" for that matter. The same tech you see on Epyc is basicly available on Ryzen. It just depends on your work-case and what you need. Need high end workstation stuff? Threadripper. Need enterprise servers? Epyc's. Need a consumer machine for games, video editting and such? Ryzens.

The Enterprise version benefit great from huge and large caches. It's not just to cover the latency but to speed things up significant. It's one approach to the more complicated laws here.
Posted on Reply
#18
user556
My take on the die stacking, since AMD put it in right at the design stage of the Zen3 chiplets (so quite a lot of years back), is it's as an experiment to gauge cost effectiveness for volume production. So, neither was it anything to do with Intel's 12 series nor is it a sure thing for the future.

PS: The timing of the early announcement last year may have been prompted by Intel's moves though.
Posted on Reply
#19
Oberon
user556My take on the die stacking, since AMD put it in right at the design stage of the Zen3 chiplets (so quite a lot of years back), is it's as an experiment to gauge cost effectiveness for volume production. So, neither was it anything to do with Intel's 12 series nor is it a sure thing for the future.
The required structures were actually already present in Zen 2.
Posted on Reply
#20
lexluthermiester
The Quim ReaperI doubt 3D cache will even make it to the 7000 series.
Except that AMD is showing it front and center as a highlighted feature. So there is that...
Posted on Reply
#21
Mats
DavenRegular desktop chips have been priced upwards of $1000 and AMD has shown they are willing to adjust clock frequencies to stay within certain power envelopes.

So I guess what I’m saying is there are no technological or pricing hurdles to offer a two chiplet 3d cache solution. The problem is most likely production allocation which no manufacturer likes to admit too. There just isn’t enough 3d cache chips for the desktop given the much higher priority and more lucrative enterprise market that Milan-X serves. Plus these cache chips are made using TSMC N7 node which is super constrained at the moment.

If this is indeed the case, then future Zen 4 chips can have 3d cache on one or more chiplets should manufacturing constraints ease.
I was discussing the idea of using 3D cache on EVERY APU, I find that unlikely. I'm not saying it'll be a one-off product, but making that amount of cache the new standard across the product lineup is a bit far fetched.

That $1000 chip you're talking about (or rather $800 as we're not quite back at old school pricing yet) will have lower priced counterparts at $300 - 600, and those are the ones I'm talking about. Rather than selling a 3D cache chiplet for those prices, AMD would instead put them in a $10,000 EPYC CPU, because money. Production allocation issues drives up cost.
lexluthermiesterExcept that AMD is showing it front and center as a highlighted feature. So there is that...
Do you have a source for that?
Posted on Reply
#22
Honda_tpu
Will there be higher clocked Vermeer CPUS?
Posted on Reply
#23
lexluthermiester
MatsDo you have a source for that?
Try reading the front page of TPU.
Posted on Reply
#24
R0H1T
MatsDo you have a source for that?
5800x3d ~ now whether it results in further segmentation or just a new (higher) tier is anyone's guess atm.
MatsI was discussing the idea of using 3D cache on EVERY APU, I find that unlikely.
Yes that's unlikely right now or at least till IPC gains go back to single digit crawl just like half a decade back.
Posted on Reply
#25
eidairaman1
The Exiled Airman
The Quim ReaperI doubt 3D cache will even make it to the 7000 series.

The fact its only being released on the gaming focused 5800X, suggests its something that AMD is only doing to overtake(?) the 12600K, 12700K & 12900K in gaming benchmarks, until they're ready to launch the new 7000 series in Q3 or Q4.

AMD will not like Intel being able to say they have the fastest gaming CPU in their marketing for most of 2022...It just gives them a free pass to gain market share, if the 3D cache 5800X can match (or beat) Alder Lake for gaming, 3D cache will have served its purpose.
How many sockets did intel force on end users? Oh right, too many.

AMD is only just now considering AM5 sockets.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment