Hecate91if it's not broken then don't fix it.

That's it. I don't update my motherboard BIOS, either, unless I need it for a new CPU, or there's a critical security patch, or useful new feature.

Edit: I'm not losing any sleep over my 1050 Ti not getting any driver updates, either (before anyone jumps on me for looking through red tinted glasses).

AusWolfFresh drivers are not needed. But you are getting one next year the latest, together with the "decent upscaler". Now please, don't hesitate to counter with your two hundred reasons why this isn't good enough, because nothing is when it comes to AMD.

Please also enlighten me how many more FPS I could squeeze out of my 6750 XT with a new driver. My guess is about zero.

for Nvidia it's pretty SAME. I have tried few games with random drivers, older and newer, including ones that contain "game X optimization" and others that don't. Haven't seen a difference.:rolleyes: Depends on how shit game code is.:rolleyes:

JustBenchingNo, it's just that Nvidia gpus last longer due to having more features both in hardware and software alongside much longer driver support. Radeon gpus on the other hand are perfect for people who like changing gpus frequently

That's your opinion of course, and not reality. The reason is what I posted which is backed by reality. Lol

unknownkNewer drivers fix glitches (among other things) in games that came out after the GPU shipped. Whoever supports their hardware with fixes longer allows users to play the latest games.

This is a non issue. Both AMD & Nvidia fix glitches in games for years after the GPUs were released. The one guy was insinuating that Nvidia supports older GPUs with driver updates while AMD does not. This is far from the truth.

Doctor WhoThis is a non issue. Both AMD & Nvidia fix glitches in games for years after the GPUs were released. The one guy was insinuating that Nvidia supports older GPUs with driver updates while AMD does not. This is far from the truth.

But both statements are technically true and not mutually exclusive. RDNA2 got put in the closet before Pascal and Maxwell, but there may have issues which will get fixed in the future. We got one for Pascal and Maxwell no later than 2 weeks ago. AMD is a little bit more tricky to learn about that as the patch note is global despite the different branches, which in such case you don't know what applies and what doesn't.
The nuance is also about how RDNA2 iGPUs and handheld chips do rely on these and are still sold brand new to this day. And if you think you'll be smart by randomly saying GT 1030 got its support cut because it's Pascal and is still on sale brand new, you'll be surprised to learn it's currently still in the main branch and actively supported, probably because of its sales volume and the fact it may be actively bought by companies; as opposed to the 1050 Ti which is on security/critical updates only.
Another point of view : imagine if the RTX 4070/3080 got its regular driver support cut short right now for whatever reason related to future tech developments. That's what happened to RDNA 2. Maybe they backtracked, but we don't know for sure. I have my bro's 6900 XT PC in my home and lots of games ranging from 2021 to 2026 won't stop crashing even after a clean install and an overkill PSU replacement.

I still don't know why we're talking about this though. The initial topic is about the discontinuation of 5090 sales to the average consumer. Which is a legit move from a company POV since it's now unaffordable to the avg consumer anyways, may as well just redirect it to workstations and servers for 4 times the price. Now companies will get shafted because they're paying 4 times more for a 5090 today compared to last year. There are always losers in such situations, companies are just losing less compared to us since it's either that or $20k RTX Pro Blackwell.

Doctor WhoThat's your opinion of course, and not reality. The reason is what I posted which is backed by reality. Lol


This is a non issue. Both AMD & Nvidia fix glitches in games for years after the GPUs were released. The one guy was insinuating that Nvidia supports older GPUs with driver updates while AMD does not. This is far from the truth.

It's anything but an opinion that nvidia supports their GPUs for far longer due to driver support and of course - forward looking hardware. EG. there are games that either cannot run at all or do so poorly (constant stuttering and / or CTDs) due to lacking hardware in RDNA 1. Nvidia gpus from the same era run these games fine due to forward looking hardware and of course - still being on the latest driver.

RinSenpaiimagine if the RTX 4070/3080 got its regular driver support cut short right now for whatever reason related to future tech developments.

No need to imagine, features like mfg and dlss5 are being artificially gatekept from 30 and 40 series owners, modders have shown those features work on older cards

RinSenpaiWhich is a legit move from a company POV since it's now unaffordable to the avg consumer anyways, may as well just redirect it to workstations and servers for 4 times the price.

And yet the same company had no issue selling massively price inflated cards during the crypto bubble, all they're doing is redirecting supply to data centers at the expense of the gaming division, or more like edge computing anymore.
The defense for this decision is an odd one, given it could set a very slippery slope towards the jacket man giving up the dedicated gaming GPU market completely. They're only discontinuing the x90 card, but the next gen may only be x80 or x80ti at the highest end, and nothing to stop them from pulling another "4080 12gb" again with cutting the die size and raising prices.

JustBenchingIt's anything but an opinion that nvidia supports their GPUs for far longer due to driver support and of course - forward looking hardware. EG. there are games that either cannot run at all or do so poorly (constant stuttering and / or CTDs) due to lacking hardware in RDNA 1. Nvidia gpus from the same era run these games fine due to forward looking hardware and of course - still being on the latest driver.

What lacking hardware? RT cores? Would driver updates help that issue?

Also, when you bought a 5700 XT you knew what you were getting. If you still cling on to it after all these years, despite many games running RT by default, that's on you. Same goes for a 1080 Ti. Crying that old hardware doesn't have new stuff is infantile.

RinSenpaiBut both statements are technically true and not mutually exclusive. RDNA2 got put in the closet before Pascal and Maxwell, but there may have issues which will get fixed in the future. We got one for Pascal and Maxwell no later than 2 weeks ago. AMD is a little bit more tricky to learn about that as the patch note is global despite the different branches, which in such case you don't know what applies and what doesn't.

Let's specify... RDNA 2 didn't get "put in the closet". It's on a secondary driver update branch, which means it still gets updates, but the core driver will only get updated to fix issues... Of which there's mostly none, because it's an old architecture, so all major issues have been dealt with already. There's nothing to fix. And if there is in the future, we'll get an update.

RinSenpaiThe nuance is also about how RDNA2 iGPUs and handheld chips do rely on these and are still sold brand new to this day. And if you think you'll be smart by randomly saying GT 1030 got its support cut because it's Pascal and is still on sale brand new, you'll be surprised to learn it's currently still in the main branch and actively supported, probably because of its sales volume and the fact it may be actively bought by companies;

No it's not. I have one, so I know.

RinSenpaias opposed to the 1050 Ti which is on security/critical updates only.

The 1030 as well.

RinSenpaiAnother point of view : imagine if the RTX 4070/3080 got its regular driver support cut short right now for whatever reason related to future tech developments. That's what happened to RDNA 2. Maybe they backtracked, but we don't know for sure. I have my bro's 6900 XT PC in my home and lots of games ranging from 2021 to 2026 won't stop crashing even after a clean install and an overkill PSU replacement.

I doubt that's a driver issue, as my 6750 XT works just fine.

RinSenpaiI still don't know why we're talking about this though. The initial topic is about the discontinuation of 5090 sales to the average consumer. Which is a legit move from a company POV since it's now unaffordable to the avg consumer anyways, may as well just redirect it to workstations and servers for 4 times the price. Now companies will get shafted because they're paying 4 times more for a 5090 today compared to last year. There are always losers in such situations, companies are just losing less compared to us since it's either that or $20k RTX Pro Blackwell.

Except that there is no "either". Discontinuing the 5090 means that there will only be $20k RTX Pro cards above the 5080.

AusWolfWhat lacking hardware? RT cores? Would driver updates help that issue?

Also, when you bought a 5700 XT you knew what you were getting. If you still cling on to it after all these years, despite many games running RT by default, that's on you. Same goes for a 1080 Ti. Crying that old hardware doesn't have new stuff is infantile.

Are you following the conversation or did you just chime in to say your thing? I said nvidia users keep their old gpus longer because they age better. And I provided some evidence of that. Whether you know what you were getting when buying a 5700xt is completely irrelevant to the point.

JustBenchingI said nvidia users keep their old gpus longer because they age better.

And you're trying to support that claim with RDNA 1, which everybody knows that didn't have any RT or ML hardware to begin with when the RTX 20-series was already out.
It's like saying that Ford is an unreliable brand because the Pinto was recalled for an unsafe fuel tank placement back in the '80s.

Everybody can pick a random example and magnify it to make it look like a systemic issue. Shall we do that with Nvidia's MFG? ;)

AusWolfAnd you're trying to support that claim with RDNA 1, which everybody knows that didn't have any RT or ML hardware to begin with when the RTX 20-series was already out.
It's like saying that Ford is an unreliable brand because the Pinto was recalled for an unsafe fuel tank placement back in the '80s.

No, it's just not just RDNA 1. RDNA 2 is still waiting for a proper upscaler - which it will only get after it's outdated (it originally came out in 2020) and nobody woulld be using these gpus anymore, on top of driver support being put on hold. It also aged poorly due to lacking RT - in the AAA games that it is mandatory (inidana jones, doom tda etc.) a 6800xt is barely matching the 2080ti.

Whether someone knows or not whether RDNA 1 had ML or RT is irrelevant. It aged worse, hence a lot of people still using Turing (cause it can play every game as of now) but are not using RDNA 1, cause it can't.

AusWolfEverybody can pick a random example and magnify it to make it look like a systemic issue. Shall we do that with Nvidia's MFG? ;)

Sure. Nvidia cards get access to the same MFG tech that AMD cards do, so it's irrelevant? But have at it. It's a useless feature for older GPUs anyways since it requires a higher fps baseline.

JustBenchingNo, it's just not just RDNA 1. RDNA 2 is still waiting for a proper upscaler - which it will only get after it's outdated (it originally came out in 2020) and nobody woulld be using these gpus anymore, on top of driver support being put on hold. It also aged poorly due to lacking RT - in the AAA games that it is mandatory (inidana jones, doom tda etc.) a 6800xt is barely matching the 2080ti.

RDNA 2 had AMD's first generation RT hardware which was way behind Nvidia's from day one. It's only with RDNA 4 that we can talk about comparable RT performance. It's also only with RDNA 4 that AMD decided to use ML for upscaling, which has to be backported for older GPUs that don't have the required hardware. If you think that amounts to AMD cards "ageing" then have it your way. I personally don't think it does.

JustBenchingWhether someone knows or not whether RDNA 1 had ML or RT is irrelevant. It aged worse, hence a lot of people still using Turing (cause it can play every game as of now) but are not using RDNA 1, cause it can't.

It's not irrelevant. It is your whole point, unless you mean something else by the word "ageing".

JustBenchingSure. Nvidia cards get access to the same MFG tech that AMD cards do, so it's irrelevant? But have at it. It's a useless feature for older GPUs anyways since it requires a higher fps baseline.

Nothing older than 50 series gets access to MFG, even though the hardware supports it. I don't think a 4080 has a lower FPS baseline than a 5050.

AusWolfRDNA 2 had AMD's first generation RT hardware which was way behind Nvidia's from day one. It's only with RDNA 4 that we can talk about comparable RT performance. It's also only with RDNA 4 that AMD decided to use ML for upscaling, which has to be backported for older GPUs that don't have the required hardware. If you think that amounts to AMD cards "ageing" then have it your way. I personally don't think it does.

And hence, nvidia gpus aged better.

AusWolfIt's not irrelevant. It is your whole point, unless you mean something else by the word "ageing".

Of course it's irrelevant. Whether or not you knew or didn't about ML hardware doesn't change the fact that RDNA 1 and 2 aged way worse.

AusWolfNothing older than 50 series gets access to MFG, even though the hardware supports it. I don't think a 4080 has a lower FPS baseline than a 5050.

Yes, exactly like amd cards which don't support MFG. Therefore, irrelevant point when comparing which aged worse, since neither gpus support it.

Anyways, I don't think you are being serious suggesting that GPUs still on latest driver, with hardware still able to support and run properly the current games while having the latest and greatest upscaler isn't a textbook definition of aging better, so im out.

Hecate91No need to imagine, features like mfg and dlss5 are being artificially gatekept from 30 and 40 series owners, modders have shown those features work on older cards

That's different. What I mentionned is about how RDNA2 may or may not get drivers to support recent games while still having more than enough computing power to run these. FG and DLSS5 have nothing to do with that, driver support is still more important than feature support.

Hecate91And yet the same company had no issue selling massively price inflated cards during the crypto bubble, all they're doing is redirecting supply to data centers at the expense of the gaming division, or more like edge computing anymore.
The defense for this decision is an odd one, given it could set a very slippery slope towards the jacket man giving up the dedicated gaming GPU market completely. They're only discontinuing the x90 card, but the next gen may only be x80 or x80ti at the highest end, and nothing to stop them from pulling another "4080 12gb" again with cutting the die size and raising prices.

We're not deep enough to know about their future plans regarding the current market. And even if it was bound to happen, what would you do about that? Micron stopped producing DRAM for the avg consumers, what can you do about that?
A situation similar to the 4080 12GB may arise, we'll be there to correct them, or they won't be there anyways.
Die size doesn't matter, only final performance numbers matter and price will follow accordingly. 4080 was disappointing at $1200 (€1350 with VAT), 4080 Super corrected that a tiny bit by releasing for $1000 (€1120-1200 with VAT), 5070 Ti achieved the same performance for $750 (€880-1000 with VAT) while having the same die size. I don't mind seeing a 80-tier GPU as flagship again, because naming doesn't matter nowadays except for misleading people. But since that performance tier from both Nvidia and AMD is now extending beyond €900 in most EU countries, I don't expect things to become cheaper until this bubble pops.

JustBenchingAnd hence, nvidia gpus aged better.

Turing and Ampere aged better than RDNA 1. This isn't an Nvidia vs AMD statement.

JustBenchingOf course it's irrelevant. Whether or not you knew or didn't about ML hardware doesn't change the fact that RDNA 1 and 2 aged way worse.

My point is, it's not like you got cheated into believing that this wouldn't be the case. You were free to choose Turing or Ampere if you considered RT and upscaling important. It's not about ageing, but about Turing and Ampere being better on RT and upscaling than RDNA 2 from day one. Fresh drivers wouldn't change that.

JustBenchingYes, exactly like amd cards which don't support MFG. Therefore, irrelevant point when comparing which aged worse, since neither gpus support it.

AMD has nothing to do with this. Multi frame generation is an Nvidia exclusive feature, which only runs on the 50-series, despite the fact that older generations also have the hardware necessary for it.

JustBenchingso im out.

Do you think pulling this childish crap time and time again makes you win arguments?

RinSenpaiThat's different. What I mentionned is about how RDNA2 may or may not get drivers to support recent games while still having more than enough computing power to run these. FG and DLSS5 have nothing to do with that, driver support is still more important than feature support.

Drivers don't support games. Games run through graphics APIs. The driver's job is to make sure that communication between the API and hardware is seamless. When it isn't, the manufacturer steps in to fix it, and releases a new driver. Or do you seriously think that Nvidia revises the whole driver code every time a new game gets released?

JustBenchingIt's anything but an opinion that nvidia supports their GPUs for far longer due to driver support and of course - forward looking hardware. EG. there are games that either cannot run at all or do so poorly (constant stuttering and / or CTDs) due to lacking hardware in RDNA 1. Nvidia gpus from the same era run these games fine due to forward looking hardware and of course - still being on the latest driver.

Again with the forward-looking hardware claims about Nvidia. This statement is fantasy. Lol
AMD restructured and implemented a split driver architecture. They continue to support RDNA1, RDNA2, RDNA3 & RDNA4. The Polaris & Vega are under legacy support that receives critical and stability updates. But the remaining are continued support. For example, RDNA 1 & 2 continue to receive day zero game support, game-specific fixes, and bug fixes, including security patches, etc.

JustBenchingAnd hence, nvidia gpus aged better.

NVIDIA GPUs actually age worse because their stingy VRAM allocations cause modern games to stutter, while AMD's massive memory pools and open-source features like FSR keep older cards relevant for years.

RinSenpaiI still don't know why we're talking about this though. The initial topic is about the discontinuation of 5090 sales to the average consumer.

Because someone made a false claim that needed corrected. And even though they continue to believe they are correct, they are not.
Sure, back to topic then.

Doctor WhoAgain with the forward-looking hardware claims about Nvidia. This statement is fantasy. Lol
AMD restructured and implemented a split driver architecture. They continue to support RDNA1, RDNA2, RDNA3 & RDNA4. The Polaris & Vega are under legacy support that receives critical and stability updates. But the remaining are continued support. For example, RDNA 1 & 2 continue to receive day zero game support, game-specific fixes, and bug fixes, including security patches, etc.


NVIDIA GPUs actually age worse because their stingy VRAM allocations cause modern games to stutter, while AMD's massive memory pools and open-source features like FSR keep older cards relevant for years.


Because someone made a false claim that needed corrected. And even though they continue to believe they are correct, they are not.
Sure, back to topic then.

This is why I don't participate in these kind of debates anymore. You are literally throwing random irrelevant stuff in there hoping it sticks.

For example, explain to me how the heck does FSR make amd cards age better when not only nvidia cards can literally use FSR (the exact same version older radeon cards use) - they can even use the latest DLSS on top of that which is better anyways in terms of image quality?

We have a name for this tactic, it's called gish gallop. You are just throwing 50 different false claims and then pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

its a prank!!

JustBenchingThis is why I don't participate in these kind of debates anymore.

The forum part of TPU has been going downhill for a while now, unfortunately. I mean look at page one in this thread, I make a comment mentioning AMD with the point of my statement being that the lack of competition in this market segment may be contributing to the situation, and someone jumps down my throat about it, paraphrases it as something I never said, accuses me of being a corporate bootlicker in disguise as someone unbiased, and gets showered in likes for it. Maybe it's on me, expecting people to understand something said indirectly in good faith, or at least wondering perhaps what the strongest version of the point I was trying to make was, or even just asking what I meant... rather than concluding it was the weakest and most insulting version possible.

The tribalism side of things was old 20 years ago, but still so many seem to see every discussion through the debate scoring lens where everyone has to be on a side. It's so strange to me that some have decided my neutrality is a disguise rather than considering I actually believe what I'm saying.

wolfThe forum part of TPU has been going downhill for a while now, unfortunately. I mean look at page one in this thread, I make a comment mentioning AMD with the point of my statement being that the lack of competition in this market segment may be contributing to the situation, and someone jumps down my throat about it, paraphrases it as something I never said, accuses me of being a corporate bootlicker in disguise as someone unbiased, and gets showered in likes for it. Maybe it's on me, expecting people to understand something said indirectly in good faith, or at least wondering perhaps what the strongest version of the point I was trying to make was, or even just asking what I meant... rather than concluding it was the weakest and most insulting version possible.

The tribalism side of things was old 20 years ago, but still so many seem to see every discussion through the debate scoring lens where everyone has to be on a side. It's so strange to me that some have decided my neutrality is a disguise rather than considering I actually believe what I'm saying.

No bro, we don't need drivers and old GPUs running modern games (due to their forward looking hardware) with modern software / hardware solutions like a nice upscaler doesn't mean they aged better. And it doesn't mean they aged better cause the company making these GPUs is nvidia. If it was AMD of course it would mean that.

JustBenchingNo bro, we don't need drivers and old GPUs running modern games (due to their forward looking hardware) with modern software / hardware solutions like a nice upscaler doesn't mean they aged better. And it doesn't mean they aged better cause the company making these GPUs is nvidia. If it was AMD of course it would mean that.

Why does every single Nvidia thread have to be derailed with a "but but AMD" finger pointing argument? This is so childish.

Anyway, your point is moot:
www.techpowerup.com/353919/amd-announces-fsr-4-1-for-radeon-rx-6000-series-apus-and-xbox?amp

AusWolfWhy does every single Nvidia thread have to be derailed with a "but but AMD" finger pointing argument? This is so childish.

Anyway, your point is moot:
www.techpowerup.com/353919/amd-announces-fsr-4-1-for-radeon-rx-6000-series-apus-and-xbox?amp

It's not "but amd". It's a reply to someone smartly pointing out that nvidia users keep their gpus for longer. Which is obvious, since they work for longer.

The point isn't moot. It's been 16 months since FSR 4 released, and it's only now backported to 2020-2023 RDNA 2 gpus. DLSS was ported day 1 to 2018 nvidia GPUs. RDNA 1 - the competitor to turing - will never get it. It also lacks hardware to play some of the modern AAA games. Clearly nvidia age much better but let's keep pretending otherwise

JustBenchingIt's not "but amd". It's a reply to someone smartly pointing out that nvidia users keep their gpus for longer. Which is obvious, since they work for longer.

That's already a "but but AMD" argument, and utter bullshit. There's nothing smart about it.

Edit: Not to mention it's off topic, too.

JustBenchingThe point isn't moot. It's been 16 months since FSR 4 released, and it's only now backported to 2020-2023 RDNA 2 gpus. DLSS was ported day 1 to 2018 nvidia GPUs. RDNA 1 - the competitor to turing - will never get it. It also lacks hardware to play some of the modern AAA games. Clearly nvidia age much better but let's keep pretending otherwise

You have FSR 4 now, earlier than AMD promised, so it is moot. Spewing this crap everywhere won't make AMD release the backport at an even earlier time in the past. Also, please keep conveniently ignoring frame generation and MFG that Nvidia can't be asked to backport, even though the hardware to run it is present.

AusWolfYou have FSR 4 now, earlier than AMD promised, so it is moot. Spewing this crap everywhere won't make AMD release the backport at an even earlier time in the past. Also, please keep conveniently ignoring frame generation and MFG that Nvidia can't be asked to backport, even though the hardware to run it is present.

AMD doesn't have MFG so their cards didn't age better thanks to MFG - cause they can't run MFG my man. How hard is it to grasp what im saying? Im not making it an nvidia vs amd, you are. Im saying turing and ampere have aged much better than their competitors due to forward looking hardware and software support. So MFG is irrelevant cause neither card can run it. If amd old cards could run MFG - youd have a point, but they don't, so you don't. Period. Im not getting back, have the last word, im sure you will be on point and not throw red herrings.

JustBenchingIt's not "but amd".

It's just a convenient way to dismiss a point, like what happened to me on page 1, and yet the other major player in the market is intrinsically relevant to the discussion when they lack parts in categories, or there are support differences that affect new and used pricing. Hand waving it away is just more childish "you can't dare be negative about AMD" bullshit. And yet they accuse you of the Bias :kookoo:

JustBenchingAMD doesn't have MFG so their cards didn't age better thanks to MFG - cause they can't run MFG my man. How hard is it to grasp what im saying? Im not making it an nvidia vs amd, you are. Im saying turing and ampere have aged much better than their competitors due to forward looking hardware and software support. So MFG is irrelevant cause neither card can run it. If amd old cards could run MFG - youd have a point, but they don't, so you don't. Period. Im not getting back, have the last word, im sure you will be on point and not throw red herrings.

Personally, I don't think either MFG or FSR 4 is necessary for a "better ageing" argument. Does it run your game? Yes. Cool. End of day. Only you're making the "it doesn't have the super duper upscaler" argument which is moot because it does now, earlier than promised. My point is that you might as well make the "super duper frame generation" argument with equal ferocity, but you choose not to, which points to a bias in your assessment.

And the thing is, none of this matters here, in a thread specifically about the 5090 potentially getting retired. It's off topic. You acting like the courteous white knight, offering the last word after dropping your "AMD shit" bomb doesn't change the fact.